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| | |-+  I just noticed something about Max and Frank...
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: I just noticed something about Max and Frank...  ( 4651 )

« : January 23, 2004, 07:33:22 AM »

I apologize in advance if this is old for the hardcore Leone fans here, but as a 20 year old who's just getting into the man's great work, I feel proud of myself for this!

OK, so in OUATITW Frank tries to change from a mere gunman to a businessman like Morton. In OUATIA Max changes from a gangster to become a Senator but eventually fails too. Weird, eh?

What do you guys think?

General Sibley
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AngelEyes, NOOOO!

« #1 : January 23, 2004, 10:35:42 AM »

Hello Andy, welcome!

That's an interesting point you bring up.  A lot of these characters are looking to get out of the nasty business they're in.  The gangster/bounty hunter/hired killer thing seems to be forced upon them instead of being a well planned career path.  Characters like Blondie, Mortimer, Max, the madman Indio, Frank seem too dignified for this dirty work, but what the hell might as well make the best of it.  They do seem to enjoy their jobs a lot more than your average working stiff.  

They do seem to keep getting closer to grabbing the ring as time progresses.  Blondie ends up as a pigfarmer, Frank seems like he's setting himself up as heir to Morton's throne, Max actually gets to legitimate for a while.  Probably a Michael Corleone Godfather III thing would be the next step.

And what if your hand should shake a little?  And that Gringo so fast on the draw.
Vinnie James
Road Apple
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« #2 : July 05, 2004, 05:32:39 PM »

It's a good observation.
Maybe that old specie about to extinct... when a man sells himself to money.
That made Harmonica and Frank so close, they were men.
But when I try to pair Max with Frank...I just can't, just by one reason, if you don't mind.
Max was always thinking about mading himself rich, bu what about Frank? Did money fullfill him? Did anything fullfill him?

"Qué nos jugamos?"
"El pellejo."
Chicken Thief
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« #3 : July 15, 2004, 03:10:03 PM »

Yes, one of the main themes in Leone's films is the tension between "legitimate" businessmen and "illegitimate Businessmen". In America the distinctions are not clear.

David Aaronson
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« #4 : October 04, 2004, 02:24:32 AM »

Blondie ends up as a pigfarmer,
When does that happen?

Fat Moe: What have you been doing all these years?
Noodles: I've been going to bed early.
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I've been to Sugar Town and I shook the sugar down

« #5 : October 04, 2004, 02:37:49 AM »

The General thinks that Munny of Unforgiven is Blondie...

Bounty Killer
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« #6 : October 04, 2004, 09:28:32 AM »

never really saw the connection... but i did notice that in a lot of his movies there is a theme about the struggle between keeping your friendships and the succeeding in the cutthroat business world at the same time or something of similar meaning usually dealing with money... in the west frank's friends and morton turn against him and he realizes he wasn't cut out to be a business man... in GBU Tuco continually will throw away any alliance he has and go for the gold... in america max "get's rid" of his longtime friends to go into business and get in the big money... in DYS mallory gets torn between choosing his friend or the revolution... in FAFDM monco and mortimer are working together but will find any way they can to split up again and collect the bounties themselves....

...the thing i love about leones movies is that it always works out in the end that the people that turn to money over friendship always in one way or another get what the deserve and sometimes end up dead for it.

Harmonica: So, you're not a businessman after all.
Frank: Just a man.
Harmonica: An ancient race...
Two Kinds of ...
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Idiots - it's for you.

« #7 : November 06, 2004, 02:08:23 PM »

It's about the past versus the future.   Frank and Noodles are stuck in their old ways, though Frank thinks for a moment he's not.   Max, like McBain and Morton, sees the future and wants to own a piece of it.

More feeling.
Bounty Killer
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« #8 : August 09, 2005, 07:35:17 PM »

Here's a pattern I noticed:

In OUATITW it's the beginning of the new America of capitalists being the respected man and the land eventually becoming open for the "American dream" to be realised by anyone who wants to pour in and plant their seeds in her fields ;)

In DYS Juan and Sean are the foreigners who want to become capitalists in America by opening their banks and living the American dream of becoming rich and prosperous.

In OUATIA Max is the immigrant who becomes a business man, a capitalist and then a senator, eventually becoming part of America's government.

From what I've read in here all ringing true about the OUAT movies it's amazing how three dimensional so many concepts are :o Leone was truly an honest artist who painted what he saw, because I doubt anyone could consciously think up all of these angles so perfectly.

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