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Author Topic: Greatest Western.  (Read 23755 times)
noodles_leone
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« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2010, 04:07:34 PM »

In France, where the CNC has to determine the nationality of every movie released or produced in our beautiful country (or by french production companies in other countries) in order to give subventions: they count on a 100 points scale, which includes the funds, the locations, the nationality of everyone involved (from the director to the technicans) and many other objective things (of course, what is subjective is the amount of points per category).
I guess it must be pretty close to what the Library of Congress preservation society does, in a less detailed way.

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« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2010, 04:20:44 PM »

I guess it must be pretty close to what the Library of Congress preservation society does, in a less detailed way.

I'd rather say: no detailed at all. But the fella is saying it quite clearly: we decide what is american and what not.

The luck of these folks is that, at the time of release, the movie didn't get any international festival award. It only got (according to IMDB) the italian David di Donatello award to the producer Bino Cicogna (owner of San Marco production) as the major producer of the two (the other being Leone's Rafran) for the best "italian" movie. And for the best producer of a foreign movie the award went to, guess what, Stanley Kubrick. If the movie had won the Leone d'oro at Venice or the Palme d'or at Cannes, then the nationality would have been clear for all to see.

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« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2010, 07:30:51 PM »

But it didn't. And I'll add you're being facetious in saying that the film can ONLY be one or the other, when it can be classified as an American-Italian (or Italian-American if you like) co-production.

The only possible reason I can see for arguing this is taking umbrage at the assertion that the film is being accepted as a masterpiece by being dubbed American, which does smack of chauvinism. But I dare suggest that this is another issue than what's being discussed.

Was it you or Miranda we had a similar round robin with about Lawrence of Arabia's "American-ness" a few months back? This whole argument seems awfully familiar.

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« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2010, 10:46:53 PM »

And I'll add you're being facetious in saying that the film can ONLY be one or the other, when it can be classified as an American-Italian (or Italian-American if you like) co-production.

You don't read what I'm writing or pretend not to understand it. The movie cannot be classified (and it wasn't: as proven by the italian registry) as a co-production because the american partner qualified as "associate producer" which is something different both from "co-producer" and "producer". Further proof is given by the american opening credits (if such are those quoted before) which recite: Paramount presents a San Marco-Rafran Production. Which is different from "A Paramount-Sm-R production" (except for jenkins, who considers these as trifles or mere linguistic accidents).  Do I have to explain it again? The movie circulated with an italian passport and, I'll add (things come in mind little by little) I wonder who owns the original positive: I'm sure Paramount never saw an inch of it. The man at the preservation board correctly says that he "feels" (not exactly a rigorous term) this can be considered a USA-It "film" (beware: he doesn't say "production" or "co-production". exactly as he said that the movie was "funded", not "co-produced" by a Usa company ). Of course then the matter becomes entirely subjective and, in this respect, he is free include whatever movie he feels eligible in his list. But, as noted before, then every movie dealing with american life or (popular) culture can be taken into consideration. Or whatever movie had some kind of connection to USA. So I'll start campaigning for Un americano a Roma.

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« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2010, 07:31:18 AM »

Which is what I'm saying from the start: they just decided a spaghetti (i.e.: italian) movie was part of the american culture (which it certainly is) and included it, without other considerations.

Agree, it sounds to me that they decided they needed to recognize "a spaghetti western" and chose this one for the previously-stated reasons more than its content and quality.  So this essentially means don't hold your breath for GBU, wouldn't "qualify" as per his explanation.

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« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2010, 10:08:48 AM »

Was it you or Miranda we had a similar round robin with about Lawrence of Arabia's "American-ness" a few months back? This whole argument seems awfully familiar.

Thought Id post the link here as I, for one, had not read it before: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=7453.0

Wow, so both the BFI and the AFI see fit to include "Lawrence of Arabia" on their top-10 lists without any mention of the respective other's role Grin

Well, for me "Lawrence of Arabia" will always be fundamentally a British film. However, as with my view of "Once Upon a Time in the West" as a basically Italian film, I only look at the creative side of things rather than any bankrolling issues. In any case, as mentioned above, none of this really matters so long as these great films exist for us to enjoy  Smiley

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« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2010, 10:54:31 AM »

I don't see an inherent contradiction here. Nor do I really care.

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« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2010, 06:16:44 AM »

I don't see an inherent contradiction here. Nor do I really care.

Yeh, like you, I honestly do not care in the slightest to where these films are attributed, yet for some reason the topic itself concerning how these attributions are made, does interest me and keeps drawing me to the topic. It must be the anthropologist in me...

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Groggy
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« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2010, 07:40:51 AM »

I'm never one to shrink from an argument, even over a topic of such triviality. Especially if it inflates my post count.

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« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2010, 02:13:37 AM »

Mostly filmed in Italy. Check. Director is Italian. Got it. Soundtrack done by an Italian. Okay. Script? Gee golly wiz! Italians, ma! A Rafran-San Marco Production? Jeez... wait a second! A Paramount co-production? Well, that proves it: it's American.

Seriously? This is an Italian film.

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cigar joe
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« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2010, 03:50:30 AM »

We know that, but its American "enough", which is as good an explanation as we need.

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« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2010, 06:33:18 AM »

Mostly filmed in Italy. Check. Director is Italian. Got it. Soundtrack done by an Italian. Okay. Script? Gee golly wiz! Italians, ma! A Rafran-San Marco Production? Jeez... wait a second! A Paramount co-production? Well, that proves it: it's American.

Seriously? This is an Italian film.

You're about a page or two late Whalestoe.

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« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2010, 09:41:23 PM »

You're about a page or two late Whalestoe.

That means I'm prohibited from commenting on the subject manner? Right. Roll Eyes

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Groggy
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« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2010, 09:49:34 PM »

Do you have anything new to bring to the table?

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« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2010, 09:12:29 AM »

Now back to the subject. Greatest Western? In my opinion, no. It is great but not the greatest

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