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: Italian vs. English Title  ( 15383 )
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« #15 : May 05, 2005, 03:54:30 PM »

The italian title must be read in that sequence because "cattivo" is the only three-syllabic word, while the other two words have two. Also, when spoken, the articles combine with the adjectives, which couldn't if "cattivo" were put in the middle. For the same reason, in english "ugly", which has two syllables, goes at the end while the other two word, monosyllabic, precedes it. It is the language that dictates the order, not the distributors.
About the meaning of "brutto", the first meaning of the word is "ugly", though in a secondary meaning (but associated in common usage to a thing or action, not to a person) in can also mean "bad". But as it is in the title, precede by the article,"il brutto" is and can be interpreted  only in his primary meaning: "the ugly looking one". 



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« #16 : May 05, 2005, 08:26:38 PM »

Thanks very much. So, although the primary meaning is "the ugly looking one," there is no possibility of a secondary meaning such as "the bad one" or "the very bad one," correct? It is different in English, where "ugly" can carry an ethical connotation along with its primary aesthetic meaning (which is why RFK was able to use it in a political speech).



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« #17 : May 05, 2005, 09:04:13 PM »

No, absolutely no chance.
In italian you can say "The ugly of life", in that case it means "the bad things of life". But though, in theory nothing hinders you from saying "he's an ugly person", meaning a  "bad person", I've never heard or read such an expression and it would sound very foreign to local ears.
Pay attention to the fact that, as in english, we have an almost same sounding word "bruto" (brute): they might have easily chosen this word if their intention would have been to stress that meaning.


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« #18 : May 05, 2005, 10:03:35 PM »

This is very interesting, because the phrase "the good, the bad, and the ugly" has come to mean (in certain cases) the good, the bad, and the very bad. This was part of the reason for the confusion over the "bad" and the "ugly" when GBU was first marketed in English (I imagine). It was plausible that Tuco could have been "the bad" and Angel Eyes "the ugly" because they were both criminals, but Angel Eyes seemed the more monstrous. We all know now that MGM marketing mis-assigned the designators because of the Italian sequencing, but before that was widely known it was easy to assume that LVC really WAS the (ethically) ugly.



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« #19 : May 06, 2005, 04:01:23 AM »

I plan to watch the american release as soon as I can, but I presume that the words designating the characters at the beginning and at the end  on the freeze-frames are misplaced too.
I was also reflecting that in italian the word "brutto" meaning "bad" is also used when related to the face or the expression "un brutto ceffo" or "una brutta faccia". But, again, never on its own. 
   


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« #20 : May 06, 2005, 04:09:00 PM »

I believe in the film itself the English designations were always correct, it was only in the marketing info that things were confused.

At the risk of flogging a dead horse, let me just ask one more time: a properly translated English version of the Italian title would be something like "The Good One, the Ugly One, the Bad One"?



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« #21 : May 07, 2005, 01:22:00 AM »

Absolutely.
I was watching some past topic on this forum and saw some old covers of novelizations. The one of GBU respected the correct designations. So, as you say, the fault lies completely with MGM.


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« #22 : May 08, 2005, 06:42:57 AM »

What about "The Good, the Brutal, and the Bad"?  And wasn't the phrase "the good, the bad, and the ugly" not a part of the English language until after the film was released?  Any wordsmith detectives out there who want to research this?  I was 15 in 1968 when GBU was released and I definitely had not heard the phrase before.  Now every two-bit newspaper columnist thinks he's the first to use it.....

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« #23 : May 08, 2005, 05:00:31 PM »

And wasn't the phrase "the good, the bad, and the ugly" not a part of the English language until after the film was released?  Any wordsmith detectives out there who want to research this?  I was 15 in 1968 when GBU was released and I definitely had not heard the phrase before.  Now every two-bit newspaper columnist thinks he's the first to use it.....
I'm pretty sure the phrase did not exist before the movie. Then RFK further popularized it by using it in campaign speeches. Now it's one of those phrases that everybody knows.



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« #24 : June 12, 2005, 11:19:30 AM »

I think the italian title is kinda exotic

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