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Author Topic: The name "Tuco"  (Read 19852 times)
O'Cangaceiro
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« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2009, 04:11:25 AM »

Damn, that's a lot of names.
Anyways, sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to take on the role of some kind of pseudo-intellectual who believes he can understand a language by reading an article on wikipedia. I was just noting that Benedicto seems a lot closer to Tuco (phonetically) than Alberto.

Hey, no offense at all so no need to apologize. In fact, I think that the more comments, questions, and "what ifs", the better. For if they cannot be refuted, then we will have to look for another solution to our enigma... Wink

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Smokey
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« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2009, 05:52:25 AM »

Ah but, as stated earlier, we have the supposedly leagal reading of his name prior to his "execution".
"Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez". I'm lead to believe from this that Tuco is part of his given
name and not a nick.

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Novecento
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« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2009, 06:36:35 AM »

From the REAL  ACADEMIA  ESPAŅOLA - DICCIONARIO DE LA LENGUA ESPAŅOLA

tuco1, ca.
(Onomatopoeic from tuc, toc).
1. adj. Bolivia, Puerto Rico, Venezuela. Maimed
2. nm. Asturias. Cob (of corn).
3. nm. Asturias. Bone of pork/ham.
4. nm. Asturias. Something prominent and hard.
5. nm. Asturias, Central America, Puerto Rico. Stump (of dismembered limb).
6. nm. Costa Rica, Nicaragua. Slice/chunk of wood, iron etc.
7. nf. Ecuador, Nicaragua. Slice/chunk of wood.

tuco2.
(From Quechua tucu  "glowing, shining").
1. nm. Argentina. Species of beetle; some of the larger kinds have a luminous abdomen
 
tuco3.
1. nm. Argentina., Bolivia., Peru y Uruguay. Tomato sauce.

tuco4.
(From Quechua tuku).
1. nm. Peru. Species of Owl

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Novecento
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« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2009, 06:43:44 AM »

which would necessitate shortening it to Tuco.

Too true Grin

However, aren't these affectionate names with diminutives meant to be able to be pronounced in full as well without too much difficulty?

Ah but, as stated earlier, we have the supposedly leagal reading of his name prior to his "execution".
"Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez". I'm lead to believe from this that Tuco is part of his given
name and not a nick.

Good point

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Novecento
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« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2009, 07:09:55 AM »

For those who can read Spanish, here is a discussion about whether Tuco is a full name or an abbreviation of a name.

Unfortunately no consensus appears to have been reached.

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O'Cangaceiro
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« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2009, 11:35:07 AM »

Ah but, as stated earlier, we have the supposedly leagal reading of his name prior to his "execution".
"Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez". I'm lead to believe from this that Tuco is part of his given
name and not a nick.

It occurred to me that the legal name could have been read as : "Tuco" Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez, where "Tuco" was the nick he was known as....

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Smokey
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« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2009, 12:43:21 PM »

"Tuco" Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez.
Is this a common practice in Spanish?

In the United States it would be common to state a legal name like this.
Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez alias Tuco.

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O'Cangaceiro
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« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2009, 01:47:13 PM »

"Tuco" Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez.
Is this a common practice in Spanish?

In the United States it would be common to state a legal name like this.
Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez alias Tuco.

It seems to me that same would apply in Spain in a formal court case. However, I wonder how formal were the courts at the time and place the GBU story develops.

Also, I think it would be interesting to find out if that was a common practice in Italy. After all, both script writers (Luciano Vicenzoni and Sergio Leone) were Italian.  Cheesy

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Smokey
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« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2009, 03:45:00 PM »

Yep, I agree. Smiley

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2009, 08:31:50 AM »

"Tuco" Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez.
Is this a common practice in Spanish?

In the United States it would be common to state a legal name like this.
Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez alias Tuco.
Well, what the hell is a "legal" name in 1862? Do you think those Texas waddies have some kind of data base to read off of? Heck no. They are just compiling all his AKAs, from all the complaints lodged against him, to indicate that all these alternate identities are the same guy.

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cigar joe
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« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2009, 08:48:10 AM »

Well, what the hell is a "legal" name in 1862? Do you think those Texas waddies have some kind of data base to read off of? Heck no. They are just compiling all his AKAs, from all the complaints lodged against him, to indicate that all these alternate identities are the same guy.

True also.

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« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2009, 09:12:49 AM »

Well, what the hell is a "legal" name in 1862? Do you think those Texas waddies have some kind of data base to read off of? Heck no.

Well said Buck Jenkins, you hit the nail on the head.

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O'Cangaceiro
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« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2009, 10:19:54 AM »

Well, what the hell is a "legal" name in 1862? Do you think those Texas waddies have some kind of data base to read off of? Heck no. They are just compiling all his AKAs, from all the complaints lodged against him, to indicate that all these alternate identities are the same guy.

I'm not sure that all of Tuco's names were aliases, except for the first one. This may be out of fashion nowadays, but in the olden times it was not uncommon (at least in Spain, and mainly in small villages) to give a child several given names. For example, "Tuco" could have been named "Benedicto" after St. Benedict (maybe his mother was cured from some sort of disease after praying to Saint Benedict and to honour him she deciced to name her son after the saint), "Pacifico" after his grandfather or another relative, and "Juan Maria" after an uncle (or "Juan" after an uncle and "Maria" after an aunt), or ...well, you can pick any combination you want. Who knows? What seems to be clear is that he was known by his own family as "Tuco", as even his brother (Father Ramirez, -Pablo) refers to him by that nick. That, by the way, seems like another oddity to me; for in Spanish, monks, friars, and other members of the clergy are usually known by their given names rather than by their family names. That is, Tuco's brother should have been referred as either "Father Pablo" or "Father Pablo Ramirez" rather than as "Father Ramirez".

« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 10:28:18 AM by Bandolero » Logged
Leonardo
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« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2009, 10:19:19 AM »

Ah but, as stated earlier, we have the supposedly leagal reading of his name prior to his "execution".
"Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez". I'm lead to believe from this that Tuco is part of his given
name and not a nick.
Since Ramirez is a quite common surname in Mexico (and in Spain for that matter), it only makes sense that before a hanging they read out all his names, including the nicknames, just to make sure that they are hanging the right guy.
As for for the nickname Tuco (it is definetely a nickname!), I have my own theory.
Eastwood is called "Monco" (in spanish it's "Manco"), which  means one-armed, or lacking one hand. He was probably given this nickname because of the leather glove he was wearing on his hand for fanning his gun (hand amputees in the old days would wear a leather glove).
Now, Tuco also wears a leather glove and since according to our spanish friends Tuco also means amputee, it is therefore just  another version of Monco or Manco.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 10:20:44 AM by Leonardo » Logged
dave jenkins
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« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2011, 10:53:51 AM »

I'm not sure that all of Tuco's names were aliases, except for the first one. This may be out of fashion nowadays, but in the olden times it was not uncommon (at least in Spain, and mainly in small villages) to give a child several given names.
Understood. But the question remains, How would the authorities know what every one of Tuco's given names were? There was no data base to consult, and it's very doubtful that Tuco carried a passport or other documents identifying him. The authorities would only know what he called himself and/or what he was called by others. There is the possibility, I guess, that Tuco himself volunteered all his given names, either out of vanity or a desire to make the hanging drag out as long as possible. The other idea is that Leone decided to use a deliberate anachronism here, to make the reading of Tuco's names resemble bureaucratic formulas of the 1960s rather than the 1860s, possibly to establish a parallel between the two periods (to promote audience identification, say),  or just to get a laugh.

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