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Author Topic: Scorsese on OUTIA  (Read 20822 times)
drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2011, 04:21:35 PM »

I think Butch Cassidy is pretty straightforward in its silliness. I wouldn't say "schizophrenic" applies when there's little serious content.

well, if it was a straight comedy, I wouldn't have minded as much. i don't think you can call it a straight comedy either; it's not like eg. "My Name Is Nobody."

Take for example the scene where the girl says that she'll do everything for Butch & Sundance, except "watch you die." That is a very serious and somber scene, and no comedy/silliness there. There's lots of stuff that just doesn't fit together.

Of course, even serious Westerns can have comic relief; eg. Leone's films are full of gags. But it's the WAY it's done more than anything. "Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid" just crossed that line into silliness/comedy while retaining some level of seriousness, which bothered me.

I would bet that hardcore fans of the Western genre do not like it nearly as much as those who are not hardcore Western fans.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 04:23:49 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2011, 04:51:57 PM »

Quote
I would bet that hardcore fans of the Western genre do not like it nearly as much as those who are not hardcore Western fans.

I would say that was true.

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« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2011, 05:32:32 PM »

I would bet that hardcore fans of the Western genre do not like it nearly as much as those who are not hardcore Western fans.

I enjoy having my integrity as a Western fan impugned on occasion.

Quote
Of course, even serious Westerns can have comic relief; eg. Leone's films are full of gags. But it's the WAY it's done more than anything. "Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid" just crossed that line into silliness/comedy while retaining some level of seriousness, which bothered me.

To borrow a phrase from Peter O'Toole (not applying to this film of course), I see it as "a comedy with tragic relief." There are some "straight" scenes but they're definitely the minority of the film. And who said comedy can't have serious elements, anyway?

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« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2011, 08:32:00 PM »

I enjoy having my integrity as a Western fan impugned on occasion.

To borrow a phrase from Peter O'Toole (not applying to this film of course), I see it as "a comedy with tragic relief." There are some "straight" scenes but they're definitely the minority of the film. And who said comedy can't have serious elements, anyway?

of course, a comedy can have serious elements, and vice versa. no movie has to try to fit perfectly into a particular label/genre. But it depends on how it's done. Usually at least I like to get a feel of whether the movie is a serious one with comic relief, or a comedy with serious elements. I think "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" tried straddling the line and you never can quite get a feel for what it is. Hard to explain it in a tangible way; it's just a feeling I get.

And I was referring to the belief that GENERALLY, I think the movie does better with non-Western fans than with hardcore Western fans. No intent to impugn the Western cred of any of the distinguished Leoneites (or is it Leoneistas?) on this forum :-)

btw, i've come to realize that bad movies do not bother me nearly as much as ones that are good but overrated Wink

« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 08:33:12 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2011, 10:58:10 PM »

Yeah, but, what about Scorsese and OUATIA?

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« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2011, 04:18:43 AM »

I'm with the grog on that one. I like the fact that they did a comedy with a kind of weird, somber and tender nostalgia feeling all over it. It's what makes it a bit unique and definitly raises the movie to another level. Not to forget it perfectly fits the story (remember that what we're really witnessing in the end of Butch and the Kid. They're cool and fun, but they're dying).

Yeah, but, what about Scorsese and OUATIA?

Who are these guys?

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« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2013, 03:38:25 AM »

hey, everyone is entitled to his opinion  Smiley

I myself had mixed feelings about MNIN. I watched it once, but I didn't really "get it." I mean, I understood the basic metaphor of Hill as the Spaghetti Western and Fonda as the Hollywood Western, but I didn't really understand it fully, cuz the only Westerns I had seen by the time I watched MNIN were Leone's and a few from Hollywood. I had never seen any non-Leone Spaghettis, or any of the Trinity films.


Shit! I never really saw it like that, I was ready to give MNIN 5/5 stars, but I didn't quite get the entire picture. Now that you've mentioned that metaphor, I'll probably watch the trinity films and re-visit the film soon, maybe this time I can give it a higher rating [which I really want to].

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« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2013, 04:32:56 AM »

Shit! I never really saw it like that, I was ready to give MNIN 5/5 stars, but I didn't quite get the entire picture. Now that you've mentioned that metaphor, I'll probably watch the trinity films and re-visit the film soon, maybe this time I can give it a higher rating [which I really want to].

yeah, that's the basic theme of the movie: after the initial spag craze, a few of spag comedies came out (most famously the Trinity ones, starring Hill) and by that time, in the early 70's, the spag sub-genre had basically become a parody of itself; so I guess Leone figured if anyone would do a send-up of his sub-genre, it should be him.

So, Fonda represents the classic AW gunfighter hero, older, distinguished, clean-cut etc, while Hill represents the spag, the messy, dirty dude, the spag character, and the history they bring with them: Henry Fonda, who played Wyatt Earp, Frank James, and so many other Western heroes; and Hill, who played all those comedic spag characters.

and at the end, with all the seld-conscious mythmaking (like the duel being photographed for posterity), Fonda leaves town, representing the AW bowing out and passing the torch to the spag.

btw, Hill has said that of all the movies he starred in, MNIN was his fave

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« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2013, 04:35:25 AM »

It's funny how Hill represents SW's but is not very violent.

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