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Author Topic: Still not convinced about the kick away...  (Read 5492 times)
Smokey
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2010, 06:17:02 AM »

Funny, I always thought the older brother pushed harmonica away and never really questioned it.

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O'Cangaceiro
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2010, 07:13:19 AM »

Funny, I always thought the older brother pushed harmonica away and never really questioned it.

Same here. This is what I posted on the previous page

"For what I can see, Harmonica's brother looks at Frank and says "You're a dirty son of a bitch!!", then he looks downwards and says something like "...and a thief!!";  then he looks up, closes his eyes and pushes Harmonica away from him. "

I have reviewed this scene a few times in the last couple of days, and I am 100% convinced this is the case: Harmonica is intentionally pushed away by his brother.

Mind you, I am not surprised that "young Harmonica" looks so exhausted when he falls, as who knows how many times Leone must have filmed those scenes over and over until he came with the final editing. If you looke close at the harmonica, first both reed plate covers are straight when Frank takes it from his shirt's pocket, then one of the plate covers is bent when Frank places the harmonica in young Harmonica's mouth, then from scene to scene the reed plate cover alternates from bent to straight to bent to straight. This blooper indicates that the scene must have been recorded and re-recorded countless times, and that may explain why poor young Harmonica looks so exhausted of carrying his older brother's weight on his shoulders.    Wink

« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 10:43:53 AM by Bandolero » Logged
O'Cangaceiro
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2010, 07:27:26 AM »

Here is the scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8W6D3bLiOo


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Leonardo
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2010, 09:01:47 AM »

Mind you, I am not surprised that "young Harmonica" looks so exhausted when he falls, as who knows how many times Leone must have filmed those scenes over and over until he came with the final editing. If you looke close at the harmonica, first both reed plate covers are straight when Frank takes it from his shirt's pocket, then one of the plate covers is bent when Frank places the harmonica in your Harmonica's mouth, then from scene to schene the reed plate covers alternate from bent to straight to bent to straight. This blooper indicates that the scene must have been recorded and re-recorded countless times, and that may explain why poor young Harmonica looks so exhausted of carrying his older brother's weight on his shoulders.    Wink

Some time ago, I posted an excerpt of an interview in italian with Claudio Mancini (Harmonica's brother) and here is what he had to say about the hanging scene:

quote
And he asked me to play Bronson's brother, the one that was to be hanged, after looking at thousand actors who resembled Bronson, even in the newspapers, but in the end he selected me. He told me to grow a beard and he let his grow at the same time.  I then cut it off, but he kept his.

While shooting the hanging scene, we were in the Monument Valley, after realizing that I could easily keep my balance on the boy's shoulders, I told Sergio: "Look, let's forget about the vest which is normally used for movie hangings, as people can easily spot the trick; I'll keep the rope in my hands behind my back and if anything happens, I just let the rope go."
But at one point I lost my balance and instead of letting go, I instinctively tightened my hands on the rope and I almost hanged myself!

He kept me 2 days in the Monument Valley and on the evening of the second day, since the boy was tired, he used a stepladder instead and in the end they left me on the ladder and everybody went back to the hotel. They had left a car with the keys in it and by the time I eventually got back to the hotel, everybody was already under the shower..!
unquote

So we are talking about two full days in Monument Valley and knowing how meticulous Sergio was, no wonder young Harmonica was tired...

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Smokey
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2010, 12:51:38 PM »

Wouldn't that be the actual case also? Harmonica holds his older brother up for what 4 maybe 6 hours. The older brother knows he's exausted, knows
there is no way out of this situation so he gives Frank a cursing and kicks his younger brother away. Seems logical to me.

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SeanSeanSean
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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2010, 08:23:30 AM »

Wouldn't that be the actual case also? Harmonica holds his older brother up for what 4 maybe 6 hours. The older brother knows he's exausted, knows
there is no way out of this situation so he gives Frank a cursing and kicks his younger brother away. Seems logical to me.
I'll buy Leone's stratagy to completly exhaust his players with his legendary endless retakes. A good way to create a realistic scene with non professional actors.
But the kick out. I'm sorry. I just don't see it.
When you see the disconnect between Bro's feet and young H's shoulders, Bro's legs are too limp in my opinion to have just a moment earlier propelled the kid to his knees and to the ground. Even hung, there would still be spring in them there legs a second later. But no force is apparent in those legs, just limp noodles.
Is'nt Harmonica's hate for Frank for putting him up to this, added to the guilt Frank made him feel for virtually killing his brother be the perfect recepie for revenge of the worst type? Pure genius.

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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2010, 09:59:19 PM »

I agree about Carpenter but QT should be kept far away from the commentary track.


Agreed. He never comes off very well when talking about films he loves.
Gets dates wrong/mixes up actors/Makes Things up/etc.
If anything John Landis should have been on the track, at least he was there as a stuntman.

Is it possible that Frank, in his younger/sloppier years, would allow witnesses to flee unscathed?

« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 10:01:01 PM by The Firecracker » Logged



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« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2010, 01:28:38 AM »

What if Frank thought he had (indirectly) killed Harmonica, too? Picture this: Harmonica must have been holding his brother there for hours, in the sun. When he falls that's because he's stretched his strength to the max, he might quite possibly even faint. So Frank and his gang leave him in the middle of a desert totally exhausted... No wonder he is surprised to see Harmonica again!

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« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2010, 10:44:39 AM »

Is it possible that Frank, in his younger/sloppier years, would allow witnesses to flee unscathed?

He kills McBain's son only after his identity is revealed. Only fair to guess he was probably more sure of himself at a younger age: could have seen it as a challenge. Actually, we don't even know whether H knows Frank's identity when Frank hangs his brother.

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SeanSeanSean
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« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2010, 06:49:41 PM »

... Actually, we don't even know whether H knows Frank's identity when Frank hangs his brother.
Maybe, but during the whole set up for the hanging this is all done by strangers to Harmonica? Unlikely. Besides the brother knows enough to call Frank by is other name ... son of a b...
Anyway, if he did'nt know Frank at the hanging, Harmonica sure caught up, to the point of knowing of other killings done by Frank. (Calder Benson, etc...)

« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 08:33:47 AM by SeanSeanSean » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2010, 10:48:04 PM »

Maybe, but during the whole set up for the hanging this is all done by strangers to Harmonica? Unlikely.

Why? We don't know anything about what went on before and why the brother is hung. Harmonica could have been there by chance just as McBain's son or as Stevens' son in GBU. These two don't know anything about their fathers' business: why should H? 

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