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Author Topic: Painterly compositions  (Read 34709 times)
drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2013, 01:51:08 PM »

I type in chrico's name and "ariadne" and there are quite a few of them.

If you search "de chirico" and "ariadne," you will get many hits, because quite a few of de Chirico's paintings featured the statue of the Greek mythological Ariadne.

But it's important not to confuse the statue of Ariadne (a statue which de Chirico painted into quite a few of his Italian Piazza paintings), with the specific de Chirico painting titled "Ariadne" (1913), of which I believe there is only one.

So de Chirico painted many paintings that featured the statue of Ariadne, and each of those paintings has a different title, but (so far as I can tell), only one de Chirico painting has the title "Ariadne" (1913). It is this painting, currently owned by the Met museum http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/search-the-collections/486740

This is the same painting that Frayling shows on the screen during his speech, and which he says was in Leone's collection. But Leone's name is not listed in the provenance of that painting; therefore, I have to believe that Frayling is wrong about Leone having ever owned the painting. Leone may have owned a de Chirico painting that had the statue of Ariadne in it, but it couldn't have been the painting on Frayling's screen.

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« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2013, 06:04:20 PM »

I believe there is a whole series. I'm not sure how many, but perhaps Leone owned one of them:














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« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2013, 06:47:46 PM »

I believe there is a whole series. I'm not sure how many, but perhaps Leone owned one of them



Thanks for showing the paintings. And yes, that's exactly what I am saying.

The first painting you show is the one that Frayling shows on his screen at this speech, and (if you believe the Met museum's provenance), Leone never owned that painting.

Theoretically, if I was inclined, I could try to look up the provenance of each of those paintings, to see if Leone's name is on any of them. That would entail searching the website of the museum that has each of those paintings (I assume that by now all or almost all or held by museums, not by private collectors), and hope that the museum lists the provenance of each painting in its collection, as the Met Museum does.

I'm not in the mood of doing that kinda research right now not to mention that some of the paintings are probably held by Europena museums and the websites may not be in English but maybe on day I will. In the meantime, if you wanna take a stab at it, I'm all ears  Wink

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« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2013, 08:50:16 PM »

The thing is that the above images all show the locomotive in the background; the top two in particular are very similar. Perhaps he just mistakenly displayed the wrong one?

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« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2013, 10:28:01 PM »

The thing is that the above images all show the locomotive in the background; the top two in particular are very similar. Perhaps he just mistakenly displayed the wrong one?

that's definitely possible. But the only way to know for sure is to check the provenance of those paintings. And in addition to the paintings you posted, there are even more de Chrico paintings that feature the statue of Ariadne.

Firstly, can you please provide the titles of the six paintings you provided above?
 I know the first one is Ariadne (1913), owned by the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/search-the-collections/486740

And the second one is The Soothsayer's Recompense (1913), owned by the Philadelphia Museum of Art http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/51288.html
Unfortunately, the Philadelphia Museum doesn't list the provenance of this painting.

(I can't find the others 4 in my books on de Chrico, which leads me to believe that they were not made during de Chirico's early period (roughly 1911-1918 or so). Most of my reading about de Chrico has focused on these early metaphysical years.)


Anyway, if you can please find the titles of the last 4 paintings you posted, I'll try to look up some more early paintings of his that included the statue Ariadne. Grazie  Smiley

UPDATE: The fifth painting you posted above is called Piazza D'Italia, auctioned by Christie's last year http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/paintings/giorgio-de-chirico-piazza-ditalia-5608658-details.aspx
Christie's says the painting is circa 1956

Wikipaintings shows a de Chrico called Piazza D'Italia that it says is from 1913, and owned by the Art Gallery of Ontario
 http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/giorgio-de-chirico/piazza-d-italia-1913

Although the two paintings are very similar, there are differences; I am pretty sure these are two different works; one may be a copy of another; de Chirico frequently made later copies of his earlier works.  Anyway, the fact that no such work is mentioned in James Thrall Soby's book "Giorgio de Chirico," published in 1955, qhich focuses on de Chirico's early work, would indicate to me that de Chrico never painted such a painting in 1913.
 

« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 11:47:34 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2013, 11:20:28 PM »

There are at least two more de Chirico paintings in which the statue of Ariadne and a locomotive appear:


The Joys and Enigmas of a Strange Hour (1913)


This painting is in a private collection http://www.artnet.com/magazineus/features/kuspit/kuspit6-16-06-26.asp#




Ariadne's Afternoon (1913)

This painting is in the Galleria Nazionale d'Arte Moderna, Rome http://www.diomedia.com/public/;jsessionid=5CE5C4516A924A11BF4DACF3D8291088.worker1en/10517735/imageDetails.html



Bottom line is that unless we have some way to check the provenance of each painting, it is impossible to determine which one was owned by Leone. Not every museum lists the provenance of each painting, and the ones that are currently owned by private collectors certainly do not have a website listing the provenance. So it seems to me, this may be a lot of work for nothing.

Perhaps the best thing we can try to do is contact one of the Leone children and ask them. Has anyone here ever tried contacting any of the Leone children for anything and received a response? Or Christopher Frayling?

Andrea Leone has a movie company, Andrea Leone Films http://andrealeonefilms.it/


Francesca Leone, a gifted painter in her own right (who herself was very inspired by de Chirico as is evidenced from this article http://www.i-italy.org/13382/omaggio-de-chirico-artists-inspired-master-surrealism-and-metaphysics )

Her website is http://www.francescaleone.it/?lang=en

Maybe someone (who speaks Italian, preferably?) can contact them and ask them if they can tell you which de Chirico painting their father owned  Smiley


« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 12:03:12 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2013, 04:11:05 PM »

Two of the Spanish paintings that Leone loved, both are in the Prado:

1) The Third of May 1808, by Francisco Goya http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_of_May_1808

This painting influenced the firing squad sequence in DYS. I recall Frayling saying (either on the GBU brd commentary, or the DYS dvd commentary) that Leone took one of his collaborators, (I think it was Tonino Delli Colli?) to see this painting, and the latter exclaimed, GOYA INVENTED BACKLIGHTING!


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2) Las Meninas, by Diego Velazquez http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Meninas

Frayling discusses Las Meninas, which he says was Leone's favorite painting, at 23:40 of this video http://www.watershed.co.uk/dshed/filmic-christopher-frayling-few-guitars-more


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