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cigar joe
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« on: January 09, 2004, 07:06:44 PM »

Morton's Railroad probably based on the Southern Pacific with one small significant change, the SP was built from west to east, here is a short history:

    Although originally independent, by September 1868 the Southern Pacific had come under the control of Collis P. Huntington, Mark Hopkins, Leland Stanford, and Charles Crocker. The "Big Four," as they were known, also controlled the Central Pacific Railroad Company, which built the western end of the original transcontinental railroad.
     In 1876 the Southern Pacific completed a line through the San Joaquin Valley of California, connecting San Francisco and Los Angeles. The Act of Congress incorporating the Texas Pacific Railroad (later Texas and Pacific) authorized the Southern Pacific to connect with that company at Fort Yuma, Arizona Territory. When the Southern Pacific crossed the Colorado River to Yuma in September 1877, the Texas and Pacific was still bogged down at Fort Worth. Seizing the opportunity, Huntington and his associates built east along the Texas and Pacific survey and in March of 1880 reached Tucson and a celebration with a Golden spike was held the tracks reached El Paso about May 19, 1881.

    Small obstacles from the tracks:

    When a town would not grant privileges to the Southern Pacific Railroad, they simply built another town.    This very scene happened when San Bernardino was left out and the Southern Pacific Railroad went through Colton, California.  Again it occurred on May 11, 1880 when the Southern Pacific Railroad agents' came to evict the farmers from land that the government had originally granted to the Southern Pacific Railroad and violence ensued at Mussel Slough    

    The farmers had been allowed to settle on the isolated land, cultivating it from a desert into a land of plenty with an irrigation system.    In 1878, the Southern Pacific Railroad took title to the land and appraised the land at twenty five to thirty five dollars an acre instead of the two dollars and fifty cents originally stated.

    The farmers lost every court case.    By the end eight farmers died, five sentenced to eight months in jail and two hundred families were evicted from their farms.  

     In March 1881, the Southern Pacific Railroad joined the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railroad at Deming in New Mexico territory to become the second transcontinental railroad.  In December of that same year the Southern Pacific Railroad joined up with the Texas and Pacific near Sierra Blanca, Texas. The Southern Pacific Railroad Sunset Route was completed in February 1883 finally reaching New Orleans.


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cigar joe
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2004, 03:09:57 PM »

The Santa Fe went through Flagstaff, and was closer to Monument Valley here is a longer history of it and its builder:

http://www.ctaz.com/~mocohist/museum/santafb.htm#MOHAVE

However it doesn't mention having to remove small obstacles from the tracks, lol

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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2004, 05:28:49 AM »

The financial violence involved with the building of the great railroads was even nastier than the physical violence portrayed in OUTITW.   The Morton character touches on this aspect a little bit.  European capital, especially English capital, was crucial to getting the transcontinental railroads built.  London at that time was the equivalent of Wall Street today, and the amount of money needed to build a railroad was enormous.  Amassing the capital was more difficult than surmounting the engineering challenges, and the only place to get funds in the quantities needed was London.

These railroad stock companies were run by all kinds of shady characters.  They had no qualms about siphoning off all the funds and bankrupting the company.  The English financiers were particularly ruthless.  The loan covenants were usually set up as Ponzi schemes.  As a shareholder, it was total caveat emptor.  Unless you were an insider, you usually lost your entire investment.   These railroad companies were ultra-speculative, and the main goal of starting a company was to fleece as many people as you could before you got fleeced yourself.  It's a miracle that any of these railway lines actually got built.   But when they actually did get built they became incredibly profitable, so they had no trouble attracting suckers - er, investors.  They generated some of the largest fortunes in the US (almost always for the insiders, of course).

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shorty larsen
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2004, 12:34:06 PM »

Yeah, like the Van Der Bilt fpr example.

Don't forget that this Vand der Bilt guy tried to make a "Nicaragua canal" in the middle of the XIXth century. He always tried to create a commercial route to the pacific (just like Morton).

He even financed a crazy expedition in Nicaragua, leaded by a guy named William Walker, in order to get control of the country and make the canal. This guy Walker was president of Nicaragua for a few months.

But then Van der Bilt saw that the railway was a much simpler solution (and a better one in terms of money...)

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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2004, 01:49:36 PM »

William Walker made it into movies back in 1987.
Alex Cox made a biopic 'Walker' played by Ed Harris. Strange little film.


its loaded with parallels on foreign policy of the American government of the present/past.
Lots of dark comedy. He also populated the world of 1855 with computers, cigarette machines

The late great Joe Strummer (The Clash) starred in it too, as dishwasher turned rebel.
Its politcal satire and not very good too if i remember.

Repoman with sombreros basicly.

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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2004, 04:08:02 PM »

Yeah, like the Van Der Bilt fpr example.

Don't forget that this Vand der Bilt guy tried to make a "Nicaragua canal" in the middle of the XIXth century. He always tried to create a commercial route to the pacific (just like Morton).

He even financed a crazy expedition in Nicaragua, leaded by a guy named William Walker, in order to get control of the country and make the canal. This guy Walker was president of Nicaragua for a few months.

But then Van der Bilt saw that the railway was a much simpler solution (and a better one in terms of money...)

Walker acted on his own initiative; he was a crazy Southern guy who wanted to expand slavery into Latin America (he also invaded Sonoran Mexico a number of years before Nicaragua).  Vanderbelt organized a group of mercenaries to overthrow Walker when he jeopardized Vanderbelt's interests in the area.

But nonetheless this is a very interesting subject (haven't seen the film version though).

« Last Edit: January 13, 2004, 04:12:09 PM by Groggy » Logged


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shorty larsen
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2004, 01:41:35 PM »

It is true that Walker was an american who wanted to expand the dying farm economy to the south. It could be seen as something like OUTW, I mean, a man faced with progress, a man who has no place in the modern world. And who escapes.

But Walker was financed by Van Der Bilt. Only someone like VDB was able to finance a military expedition in Nicaragua. What was his interest? Having an "american" president in Nicaragua would allow him to make that canal without any obstacle. And to join the east coast with the west coast. VDB abandonned Walker when he saw that the "train" solution was better than the "canal" solution.

In fact, all american intervention in Nicaragua until Sandino had a unique objective: the canal. In the beginnings of the XX century, the choice moved to Panama.

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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2004, 01:37:07 AM »

... and what is the subject LT White spoke about during the first dinner with the young chinese reporter in "year of the dragon" ?

 The Railroad building, the chinese workers . He show a big book concerning it.  

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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2004, 08:50:08 AM »

Saw Last Samurai yesterday.

I lliked it, good movie, I think with a better directior we could have seen a GREAT movie, an epic one...

What I wanted to say is that, in The Last Samurai we find, again, the railroad..... and the different forms of destructive capitalism.

Modernization in Japan ment industrialisation, "capitalisation" and destruction of the ancient visions of the world, like the Bushido of the Samurai.

The Tom Cruise character, like the John Dumbar character in Dance with wolves, escapes from capitalist "civilization", who destroys EVERYTHING.

Same thing in OUTW, capitalism, or "modernisation" if you prefer, symbolised by the railroad in the movie, destroys everything, and Harmonica had no alternative to leave, we don't know where.

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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2004, 05:31:50 PM »

I think this picture was made in Spain, near Guadix. But can someone tell me the exact location?

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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2004, 01:59:05 AM »

Try the Den in Millwall  Wink

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« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2004, 12:52:18 PM »

I'm looking for the location of this train, not for the man standing on it. I don't  no who it is. Undecided

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