Siskel & Ebert At The Movies Video Review Of OUATIA Cut Version 1984

[LITTLE BIG MAN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjzKKQuOY3U

Note the Review starts at 4.33 after their review of Streets Of Fire.

The American cut version of OUATIA opened on the 1st June 1984 at the height of the Summer movie season and (as mentioned on this video) was up against Gremlins, Star Trek: The Search For Spock which opened the same week, Ghostbusters was opening the following week!

What the hell was Alan Ladd Jnr/The Ladd Company & Warner Bros thinking?  Even the European version of OUATIA would have struggled against these more commercial summer friendly films.

Arnon Milchan (the producer) was right he should have opened it at a few selected cinemas and started a word of mouth build up for the film - probably later on that year in time for award consideration.

[moviesceleton]

Thanks for the link

I was always under the impression that Ebert saw the long version only some years after seeing the butchered version. A silly assumption really; obviously he had see it at Cannes. It's interesting that Siskel calls it the most anticipated movie of the year. Of course that might be only his opinion but I assume it reflects the general opinion to some extent. I assume there was good hype built but then the bad reviews and word of mouth caused the box office failure. Am I right? Maybe some of our older members (DJ, CJ, Cusser...) could clear that out a little bit?

[cigar joe]

I was in Montana with no TV and very out of the loop around that period.

[dave jenkins]

I don't remember getting the chance to see the cut version. I was waiting for the film to come out, but then it seemed it didn't come out, and then I forgot about it, and then the uncut version became available. It's possible that in the Seattle area the cut version opened and closed so quickly that I missed seeing any trace of it.

[Groggy]

Thanks for that.

If I recall correctly, Ebert's review of OUATIA was basically a side-by-side comparison of the American and European cuts of the film. He gave the American cut one star and a full four to Leone's original version.

[LITTLE BIG MAN]

I remember reading an article during OUATIA’s production back in 1982 (the film was never out of the trades) the article was about how Gangster films were suddenly back in vogue in Hollywood,  they cited four films in production at the time Scarface, The Cotton Club, Johnny Dangerous & OUATIA but it was America that was getting the most buzz.  It was a big epic production and there was a lot of excitement and anticipation for the film due to the De Niro/Leone combo.  De Niro was probably the most acclaimed actor in Hollywood at the time coming off the back of his Oscar for Raging Bull.  Also this was being talked up as Leone’s big comeback film after more than a decade away from the screen - there was even a quote from Leone in the article stating that it would be two films, one opening Cannes & the other opening Venice.  Thousands of actors (some big names) had auditioned just for the chance to work alongside De Niro and - Leone admirers like Scorsese, Spielberg & Lucas all made trips to Italy to see him at work.

By 1983/84 however the film was starting to get some negative headlines and was looking like a troubled production – the film was now one (long) film and there was talk of the Ladd company making further cuts for its American release – the film hadn’t tested well (In the States) and they had lost money on another long film (The Right Stuff) the year before.

When the film opened at Cannes (out of competition) the film dominated the festival, the film got great reviews “the best American film of the year (LA Times)” but at the premier Leone/De Niro were signalled out for criticism from women in the audience for the films scenes of violence and rape.  De Niro refused to do any further publicity for the film after this.

Despite the good reviews for the longer version – the Ladd Company did make cuts and released a shorter version stateside, the film flopped and was panned by critics.  The irony was that the full uncut European version made money for its distributors around the world.

[moviesceleton]

I remember reading an article during OUATIA’s production back in 1982 (the film was never out of the trades) the article was about how Gangster films were suddenly back in vogue in Hollywood,  they cited four films in production at the time Scarface, The Cotton Club, Johnny Dangerous & OUATIA but it was America that was getting the most buzz.  It was a big epic production and there was a lot of excitement and anticipation for the film due to the De Niro/Leone combo.  De Niro was probably the most acclaimed actor in Hollywood at the time coming off the back of his Oscar for Raging Bull.  Also this was being talked up as Leone’s big comeback film after more than a decade away from the screen - there was even a quote from Leone in the article stating that it would be two films, one opening Cannes & the other opening Venice.  Thousands of actors (some big names) had auditioned just for the chance to work alongside De Niro and - Leone admirers like Scorsese, Spielberg & Lucas all made trips to Italy to see him at work.

By 1983/84 however the film was starting to get some negative headlines and was looking like a troubled production – the film was now one (long) film and there was talk of the Ladd company making further cuts for its American release – the film hadn’t tested well (In the States) and they had lost money on another long film (The Right Stuff) the year before.

When the film opened at Cannes (out of competition) the film dominated the festival, the film got great reviews “the best American film of the year (LA Times)” but at the premier Leone/De Niro were signalled out for criticism from women in the audience for the films scenes of violence and rape.  De Niro refused to do any further publicity for the film after this.

Despite the good reviews for the longer version – the Ladd Company did make cuts and released a shorter version stateside, the film flopped and was panned by critics.  The irony was that the full uncut European version made money for its distributors around the world.

Thanks for sharing this too

[LITTLE BIG MAN]

No problem MS 

Did anyone notice one of the clips Siskel & Ebert showed - the scene where the gang (apart from noodles) shoot up the car and kill Joe - the Ladd Co had obviously cut the scene of De Niro chasing one of Joe's gang in to the feather factory and shooting him 

Instead we see them shooting up the car and then De Niro walking back to the car (from the factory) - unbelievable

[Groggy]

I noticed that, but was it an edit within the film itself, or an edit by the S&E people for time reasons?

[LITTLE BIG MAN]

No I'm pretty sure that is an edit within the film - the distributors send the networks the film clips to run on their TV show & I'm pretty sure their (the networks) not allowed to tamper with the film clips.

A bit ironic considering

[HG]

There is a version of OUATIA on WB's shop for $2.95 which is described as being 144 mins long.  Unfortunately it's only available as a digital download for U.S. residents and being from the U.K.  I can't confirm if it is the short version or if the description is incorrect.

http://www.wbshop.com/Once-Upon-a-Time-in-America/1000042129,default,pd.html?cgid=


Possibly shooting some-one in the eye is a bit brutal for TV.


The critics talk some sense and neither of them like the short version but I'm not sure they fully understand either version of the movie:


Siskel: "They double cross the mafia with a machine gun ambush"


The gang kill Joe on the orders of Frankie Minaldi whom I take as being one of the mafia bosses.


Max: "Frankie Minaldi is as big as they come.  He's got the Combination (mafia) in the palm of his hand."

[Groggy]

Meh, two things:

1) It's a passing detail, no big deal
2) Siskel isn't incorrect - Noodles and Co. are double-crossing Joe (if not his brother)

[Cusser]

In Phoenix, the release of Once-America was pretty small, and it was well-known that it had been edited down.  Both are the kiss of death for films.  My brother went to see it at the theater, didn't like it, and I deliberately skipped it.  In early 1985, took a girlfriend and we went to see for the first time the just-released restored Once-America at an "art" theater, very little local press at all.  We both liked it, pretty overwhelmed; girlfriend was jewish, she liked the scenes of the 1920s, pretty accurate she said.  But she said De Niro looked Italian.  I liked the casting, those kids looked amazingly like the adult actors, especially young Max.  Young Noodles did a good job, and Jennifer Connolly was magical, like watching the young Elizabeth Taylor, you knew she would be a star with that screen presence, and her first film yet.  I watch the DVD every two years or so, the story really grows on you.

I can overlook the Treat Williams part, but he was a star back then; I never liked Elizabeth McGovern in anything.

[HG]

I'm sure the short version doesn't compare favorably with Leone's cut but I'm still interested in seeing it one day.  One of the members of another board who has seen the short version claims there were two gun shots at the end.

Obviously Joe and the mafia are not synonymous.  A lot of the stuff critics come up with is worth hearing and reading but for me it's just another indication that sometimes their statements are complete nonsense.  Other examples - Ebert's opinion on the frisbee scene and the inaccuracies in the Frayling books.