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Author Topic: Black Swan (2010)  (Read 6132 times)
moviesceleton
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« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2011, 09:42:21 AM »

I'll be seeing it in a week from now. I'm a bit sceptic about combining 16mm with 7D... Plus, I can't quite see why they went with the grainy 16mm look in the first place. It was great for The Wrestler but I'd imagine Black Swan to be a film that I'd like to see in 35mm.

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« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2011, 10:50:47 AM »

They chose 16mm for the dirty atmosphere I think. They're in basements all the time. Works pretty well, it gives a 70s look to the movie. Very organic.
That's also Why 7D footage is well integrated: the noise generated by these DSLRs is very organic, not video like.

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« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2011, 03:04:51 AM »

So it was shot on 16 mm? And then blown up to 35 mm?

Which is indeed the way it looks.

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« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2011, 03:46:19 AM »

Yes I'm pretty sure that's what they did. As you say that's the way it looks.

@MS: the movie doesn't have the atmosphere if the trailer. It's not that big classy masterpiece-wannabe with loud Tchaikovsky music it looks to be. The 16mm grain has its reasons. And they sure don't film Portman as they would film, say, Kidman.

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« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2011, 03:53:26 AM »

@MS: the movie doesn't have the atmosphere if the trailer. It's not that big classy masterpiece-wannabe with loud Tchaikovsky music it looks to be. The 16mm grain has its reasons. And they sure don't film Portman as they would film, say, Kidman.
Oh, ok. The trailer sure made it look like a big classy masterpiece-wannabe with loud Tchaikovsky music.

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« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2011, 04:24:12 AM »

Yes I'm pretty sure that's what they did. As you say that's the way it looks.


Question is if they still do it this way, or if they use 35 mm and reprocess it to get the grainy look.

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« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2011, 04:37:56 AM »

Oh, ok. The trailer sure made it look like a big classy masterpiece-wannabe with loud Tchaikovsky music.

It's actually a bit more Rosemary's Baby than that, if you see what I mean.

Question is if they still do it this way, or if they use 35 mm and reprocess it to get the grainy look.

I'd shoot 35mm and reprocess. But you always have purist telling you that you cannot get that organic feeling by reprocessing. DOP are usually purist. And know better than I do Smiley

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« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2011, 05:31:14 AM »

It's actually a bit more Rosemary's Baby than that, if you see what I mean.

I'd shoot 35mm and reprocess. But you always have purist telling you that you cannot get that organic feeling by reprocessing. DOP are usually purist. And know better than I do Smiley

Gotcha!

But why waste money on 35mm if you're gonna lower the quality anyway?

Yeah, I'm a purist Grin

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« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2011, 05:34:00 AM »

Gotcha!

But why waste money on 35mm if you're gonna lower the quality anyway?

Yeah, I'm a purist Grin

If you have the money (and Aronofsky can have the money to shoot 35mm), the point is always the same: CONTROL. That's why when they shoot a feature, they put the contrast of the camera all the way down, for instance. They'll fix it with grading. It's always better, if you can, to record as much information as possible. You'll alway be able to downgrad everything exactly the way you want. The other way around, it doesn't work very well Smiley

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« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2011, 07:15:53 AM »

OK, I gave it 8/10 on the RTLMYS-thread but now I think 7/10 would be more fitting. Anyway, Black Swan's a handsome but empty movie. I have nothing to add to the comments presented earlier in this thread except that I really couldn't see a difference between the 16mm and 7D (there was maybe a half-second during which the image felt a bit video-like but that's it).

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« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2011, 11:09:39 AM »

Good interview of the cinematographer:
http://www.alexandrosmaragos.com/2010/12/black-swan-canon-7d.html


The part about 16mm:

Quote
Libatique: Darren likes 16mm because it’s small, he can do handheld, and he doesn’t have to wait around for camera setups. We were using real locations, so it helped in that regard, too. The apartment Nina shares with her mother was right next to Prospect Park, and we moved the camera in as though we were documenting real people’s lives. We made it a point to travel from kitchen to hallway to foyer to bedroom to bathroom, but the space really dictated the kinds of moves we could make. I think 16mm creates interesting texture, especially if you expose it correctly. Harris Savides [ASC] is probably the master of it; he’s always pushing the negative so you can see it in a perfect way. One of my goals was to show the grain in a way that was craftsmanlike. I didn’t want it to look underexposed; I wanted it to look like it was a choice, and I think that comes across.
I considered shooting on Kodak [Vision2 200T] 7217 with a rating of 400, but after tests I opted to go with Fuji Eterna Vivid 500 [8647] and 160 [8643]. I liked how both stocks looked at their box rating in terms of grain and color separation. I had used Fuji on My Own Love Song, and I liked its color properties, so it was really my first choice, but I just had to find out what it would look like in 16mm. Every movie is different, and Fuji just worked better for this one because of the costume colors and our overall palette, which included green, pink, white and black.

And about Canon cameras:

Quote
It was a single-camera shoot except for maybe one day, and our main camera was an Arri 416, which we used with Arri Ultra Prime 16 lenses. We used a Canon 7D or 1D Mark IV for all the subway scenes; I could just carry a 7D and shoot on the subway all day with a very small crew. I did some tests with my wife beforehand to figure out my ASA, my stop, and how I was going to deal with the focus. I didn’t use any rigs with it because I wasn’t trying to shoot in the traditional way. I tested a bunch of different exposures and then brought the footage to Charlie Hertzfeld at Technicolor, who put it in the system so I could look at the highlights, the moiré and the resolution. Then I went back to the drawing board to do more tests. The 7D has more depth of field than the 5D, but I needed that because I didn’t have a follow-focus unit and needed to work really fast. I shot everything documentary-style. I did all the focus pulls by hand, and we’d just look at it on the camera’s monitor. I ended up shooting on a Canon 24mm lens at 1,600 ASA to get as much depth of field as possible at a stop of T81⁄2.

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« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2011, 01:57:26 PM »

Thanks  Afro

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