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Dust Devil
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« on: August 30, 2010, 07:37:51 AM »


... Harry Grey still lives: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Grey


?

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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2010, 09:33:31 AM »

 Grin

Maybe because it's a pseudonym?

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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2010, 10:12:53 AM »

I'm pretty sure he died in the mid-to-late '70s, if Frayling is to be believed. Leone had a few meetings with Grey, then phoned him trying to set up another only to learn he'd passed on. Someone with STDWD onhand can correct me.

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Dust Devil
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 12:10:33 PM »

Grin

Maybe because it's a pseudonym?

I was half-joking (as were you, I hope). Wink Grin

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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2010, 12:12:54 PM »

I'm pretty sure he died in the mid-to-late '70s, if Frayling is to be believed. Leone had a few meetings with Grey, then phoned him trying to set up another only to learn he'd passed on. Someone with STDWD onhand can correct me.
I couldn't find it in STDWD but I think you're right.

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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2010, 12:20:39 PM »

I'm pretty sure he died in the mid-to-late '70s, if Frayling is to be believed. Leone had a few meetings with Grey, then phoned him trying to set up another only to learn he'd passed on. Someone with STDWD onhand can correct me.

Yeah, that's the most common story cycling around.

But I don't know how much of that whole story should be believed. I would really (in big letters) like to know how did Leone get in contact with Harry Grey in first place? - That would solve a lot of (potential) questions.

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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2010, 12:28:58 PM »

It would appear Leone later - just before the beginning of the filming of OUATIA - tried to get in contact with him (not for the first time), only to find out he was dead (his widow told him). This part doesn't seem very believable to me. They lost touch just like that?

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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2010, 06:46:27 PM »

 Hey guys, first time poster here. Anyways with OUATIA being my all time favorite movie Ive become so interested in learning more about Harry Grey (Goldberg), I just finished reading his novel The Hoods, (which was an entertaining read). But anyways here's the link that describes how Sergio got in contact with Harry. It is so fascinating how the way they met up in real life was transformed into the film. http://www.onceuponatimeinamerica.net/resources/meeting.pdf If anybody has more information about Harry Grey please share it!

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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2010, 07:42:43 PM »

It would appear Leone later - just before the beginning of the filming of OUATIA - tried to get in contact with him (not for the first time), only to find out he was dead (his widow told him). This part doesn't seem very believable to me. They lost touch just like that?

The impression Leone/Frayling gives is that Grey was a very secretive and introverted person, and perhaps still paranoid that the Mob was still after him. He may not have wanted to see Leone any more than he had to. It seems a bit unlikely, and we're going almost entirely on Leone's word, but it doesn't seem impossible.

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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2010, 08:48:32 AM »

Hey guys, first time poster here. Anyways with OUATIA being my all time favorite movie Ive become so interested in learning more about Harry Grey (Goldberg), I just finished reading his novel The Hoods, (which was an entertaining read). But anyways here's the link that describes how Sergio got in contact with Harry. It is so fascinating how the way they met up in real life was transformed into the film. http://www.onceuponatimeinamerica.net/resources/meeting.pdf If anybody has more information about Harry Grey please share it!

Welcome amigo, you'll be in good company here! Afro

I read that already, but thanks for posting it anyway. Smiley

The problem with that story is that it looks as written by somebody, doesn't it? Undecided

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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2010, 09:47:24 AM »

The impression Leone/Frayling gives is that Grey was a very secretive and introverted person, and perhaps still paranoid that the Mob was still after him. He may not have wanted to see Leone any more than he had to. It seems a bit unlikely, and we're going almost entirely on Leone's word, but it doesn't seem impossible.

Most logical, if we take The Hoods as a true account, but - would he let the movie be shot in first place, then? Again, there's always a point when the logic collapses... Undecided


I think there are 'only' two credible scenarios:

a) Most of the stuff in The Hoods are fabrications of the writer's mind.

Who, why, what, when, etc. etc. The possibilities are endless in this case.

a1) Harry Grey (whatever his real name was) wrote a fictionalized account of his criminal career as a young gangster. Some parts are probably true, but there's very likely a lot of PS too. There probably is a point when fact and fiction meet, but who can tell today. (Maybe not even he could, if he was still alive.)

a2) ''Someone who knew something'' wrote that book under the pseudonym Harry Grey, but about someone else's life, and took the money from the book(s). He/she remained anonymous fearing not only various organized crime sections, but also the man whose identity he 'stole'.

- This would perhaps explain why he/she wrote only 3 books.

a3) The person behind the name Harry Grey was slightly loco. This is again a variation: something was maybe true - but only inside his head.

The line between a genius and a madman is rather fine, as they say.

a4) Someone wrote a book based on stories he/she overheard during the youth days.

Another variation.

a5/a6/a7/a8/et cetera. We could go on forever.


b) The stories about Sergio Leone's meeting(s) with Harry Grey are false.

As much as I'm sure we all here respect him as a director, it wouldn't be the first time he actually made something up himself, now would it? We can know nothing for sure, but it is a possibility.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 08:20:09 AM by Dust Devil » Logged



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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2010, 10:51:58 AM »

Leone told about that book that the writer ketp telling everywhere it was a true story... however it was filled wis hollywood clichés.

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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2010, 08:35:30 AM »

Yeah we're not really going anywhere with this, you can find most of those 'facts' on various sites on the net... I'd like to hear something interesting for a change, even a theory.

But I'd like to read ''The Rise And Fall Of The Jewish Gangster In America'', even knowing it's very very probably a whole load of PS. I mean, just look at the title.

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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2010, 09:45:26 AM »

Well if you're too obstinate to accept a knowledgable and well-thought-out post as valid, then of course we won't get anywhere.

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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2010, 11:46:56 AM »

Well if you're too obstinate to accept a knowledgable and well-thought-out post as valid, then of course we won't get anywhere.

I meant that we're not going in any uncharted direction, as I kinda hoped we will, I didn't mean to disparage HG's post: it's a good post, though it offers (almost) nothing new.

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