Sergio Leone Web Board

Other/Miscellaneous => Off-Topic Discussion => Topic started by: Blueberry on June 29, 2004, 02:30:50 AM

Title: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Blueberry on June 29, 2004, 02:30:50 AM
I haven't seen any discussion about this movie on this board. I havent seen 1900 in 15 years and I don't remember it very well - but I want to see it again so badly - and own it on DVD.

Anyone seen it recently? Does it hold up after nearly 30 years now?

And now, with all our efforts, let's all yell out loud to whoever's got the DVD-rights:

WE WANT A RESTORED WIDESCREEN UNCUT VERSION OF 1900!!! AND WE'LL PAY GOOD MONEY FOR IT TOO!!!
Title: Re:Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: redyred on June 29, 2004, 02:46:48 AM
Never seen it but I'd like to. Isn't about 6 hours uncut?
Title: Re:Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Nobody on June 29, 2004, 04:10:11 AM
I haven't seen it either, but I've been looking for it for ages. Let's hope for that dvd soon.
Title: Re:Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Blueberry on June 29, 2004, 05:15:17 AM
Yeah, a little less than 6 hours I think, and sometimes divided into 2 parts. But as far as I understand it's been released in many obscure versions over the years. And what I saw so many years ago was pan'n'scan, I think.

I just do not understand why its not out there in a definite version - maybe it's got something to do with the fact that it's a co-production between many different stakeholders... Well: WORK IT OUT! :D
Title: Re:Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Blueberry on June 29, 2004, 05:33:34 AM
hold on.. maybe this is it:

http://www.dvd.it/sid/60305513/page/dett/froms/Y/arti/27869/novecento_e_s_atto_i_atto_ii_dvd_.html

.. but only in Italian with Italian subtitles..
Now how hard can it be to release it with English, Scandinavian, German etc. subtitles?

Any Italians out there who have watched the DVD above?
The movie is produced by our old friend Grimaldi, by the way.
Title: Re:Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: noodles_leone on July 02, 2004, 03:52:41 PM
i have recorded it when it was on tv (arte) in france, a few month ago (cut in two parts).
That are great movies! i don't love it as a leone's movie, but that's great and pretty unknow! i didn't know that De Niro and Depardieu had play together in a movie, and that De Niro had the bad role!
Title: 1900
Post by: Nobody on May 10, 2005, 03:56:00 PM
Has anyone seen this Bertolluci film? It's being released on dvd here in Norway next week. The 5 hours+ cut. I've heard lots of good things about it, and been wanting to check it out for a long time. I loved La Commare Secca and Il Conformisto by Bertolluci, and The Last Emperor wasn't bad either. This should be good. This is worth picking up, isn't it? If you say no, I'll pick it up anyway.
Title: Re: 1900
Post by: The Smoker on May 11, 2005, 02:58:25 AM
Give us a little write up Nobody if you do obtain a copy. I have always been very curious about Novecento. Bobby De Niro is in it i think. Morricone soundtrack to boot...
Title: Re: 1900
Post by: dave jenkins on May 12, 2005, 12:49:33 AM
This is worth picking up, isn't it? If you say no, I'll pick it up anyway.
What will you do if we say "maybe?"

De Niro is pretty good in it. Lancaster too, but he exits early. Sutherland is awful, but that was probably because the part was so badly written. But what was the point of filling an historical Italian epic with stars from America?

I haven't seen this since its original run, in 2 parts, in 1978. For some reason, I've never felt the need to revisit it on video....
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Blueberry on August 01, 2005, 05:39:42 AM
1900 is currently showing in a restored version in an art cinama where I live. They divided it up in 2 parts so you have to pay admittance twice to see one film. But it's uncut (I think) and the total running time is close to 5 hours.

Anyway, went to see it on the big screen yesterday - something that I have been looking forward to for years - and it was beautiful. The music and the cinematography is the best part, closely followed by the portrait of an era. Then we have the portraits of the characters... probably the weakest part. Olmo and Alfredo as boys are excellent though - like in OUATIA.

Haven't seen the last half yet, it doesn't open until a month from now, but I can't wait.

This is the kind of film that we never see anymore. Incredibly ambitious, political, weird, beautiful, provoking, messy, slow, poetic, daring, surprising - a mix of it all. It contains certain scenes where you go: "what!" and just can't believe that they just did or said that... Or like when de Niro and Depardieu is in bed with a whore and the camera just keeps moving upwards from the end of the bed to show us something that we'd rather have lived without... This film takes no short cuts.

Glad to be able to see it on the big screen. It was a good day, 'coz when I went I discovered that the same cinema is re-premiering Visconti's Leopard as well - restored... in a month or so.

These are good times.


 



Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Poggle on August 01, 2005, 01:19:13 PM
Laddy, where the hell do you live!? :o

You also have to admit, 1900 has some hilarious lines that are probably not meant to be funny ;D "I'm screwing the earth!" "Ooh, cocaine, I'd like to try some, let me try some"
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Johny_Exhale on August 01, 2005, 02:51:11 PM
just saw it in the dvd store couple of days back for €20

(http://217.148.171.144/ProductImages/autoimport/832300_832399/000000p832362_front.jpg)

dutch-speaking folks can pick it up here: http://www.vanleest.nl/pages/productview.asp?productid=832362&navid=47#
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Blueberry on August 03, 2005, 12:45:08 AM
Laddy, where the hell do you live!? :o

Århus, Denmark, and our treasured little arthouse cinema - that is completely dependent on municipal support (sometimes I appreciate that our tax rate is so high) - is called East of Eden (Øst for Paradis in Danish). I once had the chance to discuss some OUATIW with one of the owners, a quite old enthusiast who is in it for love of the art, definitely not money.

Anyway - this is it: www.paradisbio.dk - if anyone would like to swing by...
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Film-Junkie Zach on August 03, 2005, 08:29:41 AM
I have heard much about this film. Mixed Reviews actually. I have not seen it. But I want to. I would buy it on DVD.

I love epic films.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Juan Miranda on August 03, 2005, 10:39:50 AM
Its a superb film in almost every department with one important exception. The script badly falls apart towards the end, which is a real shame if you've stuck with it for 5 hours or so.

They clearly had no idea how to finish it, and it resorts to 1960's, French New Wave stlye nonsense.

Actually, thinking about it, Donald Sutherland gives an utterly absurd, eye rolling, cartoon like act as head of the local Il Fascisti. I don't know if this was his fault, or Bertolluci asked him to play it that way.

Apart from that it has superb cinematography, Morricone music, De Niro and Depardieu and its even got a Bugatti.  :) Sterling Hayden gives a career best performance too, as the peasant patriarch. What more could you ask for?

I suspect that a reason it hasn't got a DVD release in the US or the UK is due to the fact that, in the current moral climate, classification boards would strongly take issue at the child nudity in the silkworm loft sequence. What was OK for the 1970's is taboo today.

If you have seen it at the movies, its always screened in 2 parts (like ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA). Some unscrupulous cinemas will even programme it over 2 different days, just to make more money. Very naughty.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Poggle on August 03, 2005, 01:07:53 PM
As much as I love it and it's entertaining, there's one thing about it that always boggles me. SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!






















After Alfredo's wife left him and his best friend went on exhile he decides to fire Attila. Wasn't it a little too late? "Hey, guess what, I fired Attila!"
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Juan Miranda on August 03, 2005, 02:42:49 PM
 :D
I had forgotten that Sutherland's character was called "Atilla". What a subtle piece of political satire that was!
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Kurug3n on August 17, 2007, 10:45:50 PM
To anyone still interested in buying the R1 release heres a link:

http://product.half.ebay.com/1900_W0QQprZ55628593QQtgZinfo (http://product.half.ebay.com/1900_W0QQprZ55628593QQtgZinfo)
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: PowerRR on August 18, 2007, 08:00:37 AM
I thought it was great - I own the DVD!
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Novecento on August 17, 2009, 01:26:49 PM
Just came across this nice You Tube tribute (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNrs1ZspVyc&feature=related). Also, in response to a previous posting...

But what was the point of filling an historical Italian epic with stars from America?

... Bertolucci said that originally he wanted to have Alfredo (an aristocratic landowner with fascist connections) played by an American, for whom he chose De Niro, and to have Olmo (a peasant who becomes a Communist) by a Russian, but that he had problems securing a Russian actor so settled with Depardieu who is French. As for Lancaster, Bertolucci met with him on the set of Visconti's "The Leopard" where he was playing a very similar aristocratic role and Lancaster offered to play the role without fee. Sutherland is not American but Canadian and Bertolucci simply said that he was in Paris when he was casting and thought he would be good as Atilla.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: T.H. on August 17, 2009, 02:00:32 PM
There's much to admire about this picture, but in a way, isn't 1900 just an entertaining, five hour mess? Nothing really materializes, it played like a very twisted mini-series.

The Conformist, on the other hand, is a masterpiece. The Last Tango in Paris is pretty damn impressive as well. The Last Emperor (hopefully that's the name lol) is decent but pretty bland and ordinary.

Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: titoli on August 17, 2009, 02:38:28 PM
Quote from: Novecento
As for Lancaster, Bertolucci met with him on the set of Visconti's "The Leopard" where he was playing a very similar aristocratic role and Lancaster offered to play the role without fee.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071585/
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: titoli on August 17, 2009, 02:42:51 PM
Quote from: Novecento
Sutherland is not American but Canadian

This will guarantee you Jenkins' eternal friendship.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 17, 2009, 02:50:42 PM
Funny, I was just about to pounce on that one.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: twood on August 17, 2009, 02:51:33 PM
I liked this film, certainly worth a re-watch.  It has it's faults, even Bertolucci's version has a disjointed feel about it. The cinematography is real nice.  You have to have a strong stomach too, as it's pretty horrific.

I think people are being a bit harsh on Sutherland.  Sure the part/performance was over the top, but I reckon he's great in it. Very menacing, scary stuff!  His wife in it possibly went a bit over the top though.

I like De Niro and I think it's cool that he gets to name working with Leone and Berolucci on his CV (or filmography!).

Good film, helped with an exceptional Morricone soundtrack.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Novecento on August 17, 2009, 03:13:59 PM
This will guarantee you Jenkins' eternal friendship.

Why's that?
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Dust Devil on August 17, 2009, 03:45:19 PM
Why's that?

Because he esteems him as an actor so much, obviously.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: titoli on August 17, 2009, 03:46:39 PM
Funny, I was just about to pounce on that one.

Funny?
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Novecento on August 17, 2009, 04:38:10 PM
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071585/

Oh yeh, guess it must have been that one. Il Gattopardo was made long before then in 1963.

Is it a good movie Titoli? I really enjoyed Il Gattopardo.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Novecento on August 17, 2009, 04:41:23 PM
By the way, does anyone else think that the International title "1900" is more than a bit misleading? I think Bertolucci said something of this nature.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Dust Devil on August 17, 2009, 11:49:15 PM
By the way, does anyone else think that the International title "1900" is more than a bit misleading? I think Bertolucci said something of this nature.

For a movie that aimed on international audience the original title itself was a strange choice, IMO, furthermore making the international sound extremely maladjusted and bogus. The correct translation is ''The 1900s'', or something among those lines.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: titoli on August 17, 2009, 11:50:19 PM
Oh yeh, guess it must have been that one. Il Gattopardo was made long before then in 1963.

Is it a good movie Titoli? I really enjoyed Il Gattopardo.

I'm not the best person to talk about Visconti, whose only movie I like is Bellissima. I can't say this is ugly but I can't say is a masterpiece. Probably there are Visconti's movies much worse like Lo straniero (which ought to be as boring as the novel: I systematically missed it) and Rocco, which i detest.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Novecento on August 18, 2009, 06:07:06 AM
Because he esteems him as an actor so much, obviously.

But what does that have to do with him being Canadian?

By the way, it just occurred to me that it seems ironic that the savior of America in the TV show 24 is played by his son Kiefer Sutherland who is a British-born Canadian. Of course it's all fantasy so doesn't really matter but it seems kind of like James Bond being played by a non-British actor.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Novecento on August 18, 2009, 06:11:01 AM
I'm not the best person to talk about Visconti, whose only movie I like is Bellissima. I can't say this is ugly but I can't say is a masterpiece. Probably there are Visconti's movies much worse like Lo straniero (which ought to be as boring as the novel: I systematically missed it) and Rocco, which i detest.

So you didn't even like Il Gattopardo then?

For a movie that aimed on international audience the original title itself was a strange choice, IMO, furthermore making the international sound extremely maladjusted and bogus. The correct translation is ''The 1900s'', or something among those lines.

Speaking of which, isn't the Italian for leopard "leopardo" rather than "gattopardo"?
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: titoli on August 18, 2009, 06:54:10 AM
So you didn't even like Il Gattopardo then?

Not particularly. I liked the novel much better.

Speaking of which, isn't the Italian for leopard "leopardo" rather than "gattopardo"?

Yeah, but that leaves you with a gattopardo in excess. 
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 18, 2009, 11:24:49 AM
But what does that have to do with him being Canadian?

By the way, it just occurred to me that it seems ironic that the savior of America in the TV show 24 is played by his son Kiefer Sutherland who is a British-born Canadian. Of course it's all fantasy so doesn't really matter but it seems kind of like James Bond being played by a non-British actor.
Don't let the Canadian-American thing wrap you around the axle. The distinction is moot for practical purposes. Neil Young and William Shatner are two of the most prominent Canadian Americans there are, and both countries are proud to claim them.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Dust Devil on August 18, 2009, 01:53:41 PM
Don't let the Canadian-American thing wrap you around the axle. The distinction is moot for practical purposes. Neil Young and William Shatner are two of the most prominent Canadian Americans there are, and both countries are proud to claim them.

 ;D Post of the week. ;D
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Novecento on August 19, 2009, 08:49:03 AM
Well, suffice to say Bertolucci employed North-American actors for the three main landlord/Fascist roles (Robert De Niro, Burt Lancaster, Donald Sutherland) and wanted a Russian, or possibly Russians although he only talks about Olmo, for the main Peasant/Communist role(s). Instead he used Europeans for the three main Peasant/Communist roles: Gerard Depardieu and Dominique Sanda (French); Werner Bruhns (German).

Consequently, Bertolucci's desired political statement was lost on Jenkins, myself and quite possibly everyone who watched the film. I only found out about the idea from listening to an interview on the US DVD with Bertolucci who himself seems to note how the statement no longer really meant anything. As for Donald Sutherland, whether Bertolucci knew or not, it is more than likely he would not have cared anyway. In any case, Bertolucci only actually commented on his desire for a contrast between Alfredo (De Niro) and Olmo (Depardieu) and simply talked about the other actors in terms of them being the most appropriate people he could find for the roles.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: T.H. on August 19, 2009, 09:26:56 AM
What did Bertolucci say? You can't tease us like that, geeze.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Novecento on August 19, 2009, 10:07:41 AM
You mean you want me to transcribe that section of the interview word for word? :o

Maybe I'll fish out the DVD and do it sometime when I'm really really bored which isn't very often. You could just watch it yourself you know.

Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: T.H. on August 19, 2009, 10:33:43 AM
just a brief summary from what you remember.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Noodles_SlowStir on August 19, 2009, 12:30:20 PM
Well, suffice to say Bertolucci employed North-American actors for the three main landlord/Fascist roles (Robert De Niro, Burt Lancaster, Donald Sutherland) and wanted a Russian, or possibly Russians although he only talks about Olmo, for the main Peasant/Communist role(s). Instead he used Europeans for the three main Peasant/Communist roles: Gerard Depardieu and Dominique Sanda (French); Werner Bruhns (German).

I think you're right.  I remember a little bit the discussion in the video interview on the disc.  I'll have to watch it again.  I also remember reading this idea in print more than once in interviews.  Just to add another thought.  I think Bertolucci gets away from this casting idea in a big way with the casting of Sterling Hayden as Leo Dalco (whether he felt he was the best actor for the part or whatever his decision).  I think his role is an important one since he's often contrasted to the padrone in the first half of the film.  He's basically the patriarch of the Dalco clan and really of all the peasants on the estate.  I think it turned out to be a great decision.  I always thought that Hayden was terrific in the film.  He definitely holds his own in the scenes with Lancaster. 

I realize you were kind of comparing three roles from both categories.  In addition to Leo Dalco, the Anita character played by Stefania Sandrelli is important despite her screen time.  She does fit in with the original casting approach. 
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Novecento on August 19, 2009, 01:29:46 PM
Just to add another thought.  I think Bertolucci gets away from this casting idea in a big way with the casting of Sterling Hayden as Leo Dalco (whether he felt he was the best actor for the part or whatever his decision).  I think his role is an important one since he's often contrasted to the padrone in the first half of the film. 

Good point! And yes he does hold his own very well indeed.

I realize you were kind of comparing three roles from both categories. 

Yes and I stress that was me doing that. Bertolucci only explicitly mentions Alfredo and Olmo in this contrast.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: Novecento on August 19, 2009, 01:33:01 PM
It's tough to choose a language when watching this. I always favor actors' own voices as much as possible so tend to go with whatever the main leads are speaking.

However, in spite of all the main actors providing their own English dubbing, I actually prefer the Italian audio for this one.
Title: Re: Bertolucci's 1900 (Novecento)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on April 18, 2013, 01:32:36 AM
I wanna buy this movie; I looked up on Amazon; there are many dvd/br options http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dmovies-tv&field-keywords=1900


I noticed that the various options list at least 3 different aspect ratios for the movie (1.66:1, 1.78:1, and 1.85:1) I want to buy the disc with the correct aspect ratio.

Imdb (which of course is not very trustworthy) says the movie's correct aspect ratio is 1.66:1 (I know that is a common aspect ratio for Europeans movies; was it released in America in that aspect ratio as well)?

According to Amazon (whose technical specs can't necessarily be trusted either), the blu ray is 1.78:1; the 3-disc dvd's aspect ratio is 1.85:1, while the 2-disc dvd's aspect ratio is 1.66:1. However, according to DVD Beaver http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdreviews15/1900.htm the 2-disc version's aspect ratio is 1.85:1. (I despise Beaver but I occasionally use his site only to confirm a disc's technical specs and a list of bonus features. For anything else, he is useless).

So I am wondering if anyone knows about this stuff, and can help me choose the best Region 1/A version of this movie, and the one with the correct aspect ratio?

(I know that sometimes, Italian dvd/br's are listed as being Region 2/B, but are actually region-free. If you believe that the Italian disc is best and can assure me that it would play on my American blu ray player, then feel free to recommend that. But unless you are sure that the Italian disc is region-free, I am only looking for the best option among the American discs).

Thanks!

p.s. I'm sorry if this issue has been discussed earlier in this thread; I specifically did not read any previous posts because I have not yet seen the movie and I didn't want to read any plot spoilers.