Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => A Fistful of Dollars => Topic started by: mortimerforever on July 04, 2004, 02:24:43 PM

Title: Fistful Vocals.
Post by: mortimerforever on July 04, 2004, 02:24:43 PM
In '' Something to Do With Death' Frayling says that were original vocals to For a Fistful of Dollars. Does anyone know what the original words were?


Quote
He is perhaps.. the most dangerous man who ever lived.                                        
Title: Re:Fistful Vocals.
Post by: Belkin on July 29, 2004, 01:56:48 PM
In '' Something to Do With Death' Frayling says that were original vocals to For a Fistful of Dollars. Does anyone know what the original words were?He is perhaps.. the most dangerous man who ever lived.                                        
A friend of mine had a copy of the single back in the 70'. I can only remember the first line.....
"FOR A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS HE WILL KILL ANY MAN....."
I think it was sung by an American called PETER TEVIS.
If i come across the rest of the lyrics I will post them here..... :)
Title: Re:Fistful Vocals.
Post by: visitor on July 29, 2004, 04:42:13 PM
These are the lyrics to PASTURES OF PLENTY
E Morricone did an arrangement of this using what was to become TITOLI(the title track)to FISTFUL OF DOLLARS

lyrics by Woody Guthrie

It’s a mighty hard row that my poor hands have hoed
My poor feet have traveled a hot dusty road
Out of your dust Bowl and Westward we rolled
Blue deserts so hot and your mountains so cold

I've wandered all over your green growing land
Where ever your crops are I've lent you my hands
On the edge of your cities, you’ll see me and then
I come with the dust and I’m gone with the wind

California, Arizona, I'd worked on your crops
the North up to Washington to gather your hops
I got beets from your ground
I cut grapes from your vines
To sat on our table’s and light sparkling wine

Green pastures of plenty from dry desert ground
From the grand Coulee Dam where the water runs down
Every state of this Union us migrants have been
We come with the dust and we’re gone,  with the wind

We come with the dust and we’re gone,  with the wind

And we're gone.. with the wind...
 
Title: Re:Fistful Vocals.
Post by: visitor on July 29, 2004, 04:47:41 PM
there was also a vocal version done of the "theme" from FISTFUL OF DOLLARS, the trumpet led dirge used for the marches, gunfight music etc.

Lyrics to Per un pugno di dollari

The hate among men
That comes from the wanting of gold
Destroys everyone - young and old

When men reach the end of the chase
And find that their life is a waste
They find their gold was in their chances
Now there's no new chance
No second chance
No new chance

When hate rules men's hearts
A strange kind of justice prevails
Title: Re:Fistful Vocals.
Post by: Dlanor on October 17, 2004, 09:32:57 AM
I also read that Morricone took his inspiration from a Mexican funeral hymn.
Title: Re:Fistful Vocals.
Post by: Concorde on November 15, 2004, 06:12:44 AM
 ???

Yes, but in the version that's heard within the movie itself, what's being sung in those little vocal drops?

It sounds like a choir chanting, "We can fight! We can fight!"

Is that right, or are the words in Italian and saying something totally different?
Title: pastures of plenty
Post by: iceman on November 25, 2004, 07:27:28 PM
Where can I here woody Guthries Pastures of Plenty which was the apparent  inspiration for Titoli
Title: Re:pastures of plenty
Post by: iceman on November 27, 2004, 11:43:43 AM
Where can I here woody Guthries Pastures of Plenty which was the apparent  inspiration for Titoli

Just heard two versions by Alison Krauss (who?) and  Odetta(who?)....absolutly nothing like Titloli
Who came up with the notion it inspired Titoli?
Title: Re:pastures of plenty
Post by: KERMIT on November 29, 2004, 07:29:55 PM
Just heard two versions by Alison Krauss (who?) and  Odetta(who?)....absolutly nothing like Titloli
Who came up with the notion it inspired Titoli?
i think maybe titoli was simply inspired  by the guthrie tune. with  trumpet  as centerpiece.  

Title: Re: Fistful Vocals-mystery solved
Post by: Cusser on January 14, 2005, 05:08:47 PM
No, the vocals are not "we can fight", they are "with the wind", absolutely.  I just got hold of the film music with two tracks with the vocals included; the chants begin just after the words "with the wind" are sung, and they are clearly "with the wind" as well.  The lyrics by Woody Guthrie posted above by "Visitor" are about 99% correct, the vocalist makes a few minor changes.  Also, the lyrics to "Per un pugno di dollari" posted by "Visitor" in the subsequent post are also correct.  So, it's "with the wind", see the Woody Guthrie lyrics above.  Of course, the Grand Coulee Dam wasn't built at the time of FOD, and Arizona didn't become a state until 1912....
Title: Re: Fistful Vocals-mystery solved
Post by: visitor on January 15, 2005, 06:59:38 AM
No, the vocals are not "we can fight", they are "with the wind", absolutely.  I just got hold of the film music with two tracks with the vocals included; the chants begin just after the words "with the wind" are sung, and they are clearly "with the wind" as well.  The lyrics by Woody Guthrie posted above by "Visitor" are about 99% correct, the vocalist makes a few minor changes.  Also, the lyrics to "Per un pugno di dollari" posted by "Visitor" in the subsequent post are also correct.  So, it's "with the wind", see the Woody Guthrie lyrics above.  Of course, the Grand Coulee Dam wasn't built at the time of FOD, and Arizona didn't become a state until 1912....

Morricone recorded that song a couple of years before FISTFUL, along with the alternate instrumental with Alessandroni whistling.
Leone liked it so much he told Morricone to use it for the main theme .
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: visitor on January 15, 2005, 07:09:28 AM
once more unto the breech :).

Titoli, the main whistling theme from FISTFUL(NOT the trumpet theme) was taken from Ennio Morricone's  1962(?) arrangement of Peter Tevis's  VERSION of Woody Guthrie's PASTURES OF PLENTY.

the Guthrie VERSION does  NOT sound like Titoli.
The Morricone ARRANGEMENT, complete with responsive chants of "with the wind, with the wind..." was also done as an instrumental.

This is what Leone requested Morricone use as the main music for FISTFUL.

The trumpet theme AKA "Theme from A Fistful Of Dollars" is a derivative of the "Rio Bravo/ Alamo" type of Mexican trumpet themes, of which Morricone also did a cover version in the early sixties.
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: KERMIT on January 15, 2005, 10:39:01 AM
once more unto the breech :).

Titoli, the main whistling theme from FISTFUL(NOT the trumpet theme) was taken from Ennio Morricone's  1962(?) arrangement of Peter Tevis's  VERSION of Woody Guthrie's PASTURES OF PLENTY.

the Guthrie VERSION does  NOT sound like Titoli.
The Morricone ARRANGEMENT, complete with responsive chants of "with the wind, with the wind..." was also done as an instrumental.

This is what Leone requested Morricone use as the main music for FISTFUL.

The trumpet theme AKA "Theme from A Fistful Of Dollars" is a derivative of the "Rio Bravo/ Alamo" type of Mexican trumpet themes, of which Morricone also did a cover version in the early sixties.
lol, VIZ thanks for throwing out the lifeline  ;D
kerm                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: iceman on January 16, 2005, 07:07:07 AM
once more unto the breech :).

Titoli, the main whistling theme from FISTFUL(NOT the trumpet theme) was taken from Ennio Morricone's  1962(?) arrangement of Peter Tevis's  VERSION of Woody Guthrie's PASTURES OF PLENTY.

the Guthrie VERSION does  NOT sound like Titoli.
The Morricone ARRANGEMENT, complete with responsive chants of "with the wind, with the wind..." was also done as an instrumental.

This is what Leone requested Morricone use as the main music for FISTFUL.

The trumpet theme AKA "Theme from A Fistful Of Dollars" is a derivative of the "Rio Bravo/ Alamo" type of Mexican trumpet themes, of which Morricone also did a cover version in the early sixties.

Always thought the chants were "We can Fight"?
Title: No, it's "with the wind"
Post by: Cusser on January 17, 2005, 12:24:36 PM
Iceman - I posted this Friday under "Fistful Vocals"

No, the vocals are not "we can fight", they are "with the wind", absolutely.  I just got hold of the film music with two tracks with the vocals included; the chants begin just after the words "with the wind" are sung, and they are clearly "with the wind" as well.  The lyrics by Woody Guthrie posted above by "Visitor" are about 99% correct, the vocalist makes a few minor changes.  Also, the lyrics to "Per un pugno di dollari" posted by "Visitor" in the subsequent post are also correct.  So, it's "with the wind", see the Woody Guthrie lyrics above. 
Title: Re: No, it's "with the wind"
Post by: iceman on January 17, 2005, 03:49:05 PM
Iceman - I posted this Friday under "Fistful Vocals"

No, the vocals are not "we can fight", they are "with the wind", absolutely.  I just got hold of the film music with two tracks with the vocals included; the chants begin just after the words "with the wind" are sung, and they are clearly "with the wind" as well.  The lyrics by Woody Guthrie posted above by "Visitor" are about 99% correct, the vocalist makes a few minor changes.  Also, the lyrics to "Per un pugno di dollari" posted by "Visitor" in the subsequent post are also correct.  So, it's "with the wind", see the Woody Guthrie lyrics above. 

Just listened to the film again and it sure sounds like "we can fight"...unless "with the wind" sounds like we can fight  in italian.

Where can we get hold of the"fistful" version with lyrics?
Title: Re:pastures of plenty
Post by: Belkin on January 17, 2005, 04:08:27 PM
Just heard two versions by Alison Krauss (who?) and  Odetta(who?)....
Odetta, one of the greatest BLUES singers ever to grace our planet and Alison Krauss.....HEAVEN! Check out these two gals!  8)
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: Cusser on January 17, 2005, 05:00:20 PM
Iceman: E-mail me at cussboy@cox.net.  The file is just over three MB, so I made a more compressed one under 2 MB that I believe most E-mails can handle, it sounds fine.  It's an mp3 file.
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: iceman on January 19, 2005, 11:24:45 AM
Iceman: E-mail me at cussboy@cox.net.  The file is just over three MB, so I made a more compressed one under 2 MB that I believe most E-mails can handle, it sounds fine.  It's an mp3 file.

Thanks for the files Cusser.. magic. You are definatly right the chants on that version are certainly "with the wind"(with an Italian twang), but I have to say after listening to the soundtrack again ...the two still dont sound the same ...it still seems to me that they chant "we can fight" in the film. Maybe Ennio changed it in keeping with the theme of the film, that  of the persecuted eventually fighting back and winning through..might just be rambling now........ any other thoughts?

Ice
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: Cusser on January 19, 2005, 11:37:32 AM
Ice - I agree that in the film music and soundtrack albums that the chants do sound more like "we can fight" than the "with the wind" in the fully vocalized version.  Maybe in the fully vocalized version the background singers were english-speaking and maybe Italians phonetically vocalized them for "Fistful". 
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: Cusser on January 19, 2005, 11:56:16 AM
Here's what I've pulled together from several knowlegeable posters here:

Original Italian 45 single: RCA PM45-3115 / Peter Tevis (arranged and conducted by Ennio Morricone) / side A: Pastures of Plenty - 2:38  side B: Notte Infinita - 2:58   

This RCA single is one of the most important in the history of Italian film music in general, and specifically to the history of the spaghetti western. Prior to Sergio Leone beginning work on A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS, Peter Tevis left his home in California and settled in Rome, intending to pursue a career as a singer. Tevis' Italian agent arranged for him to record singles with Ennio Morricone, who, at the time, was contracted with RCA Italy to arrange and record ballads with various artists. Tevis had earlier invented a musical identity for himself incorporating a unique, masculine Spanish/Latin color which he deftly applied to traditional Americana/folk/bluegrass. During his initial visit to Morricone's office at RCA, Tevis performed live his special version of Woody Guthrie's Pastures of Plenty. Incorporated into Tevis' take on Pastures was a short melodic "bridge", or instrumental middle section, which Tevis had composed. Morricone fully absorbed Tevis' invention and ultimately produced the amazing sounds found on side A of this single

http://www.furious.com/perfect/morricone2.html
On the above web page it's simply stated that the chanting in the FOD theme is "We can fight". I don't know whether the source is reliable though... ..here's the text of that page:

Ennio Morricone's Finest Scores
Are the people who choose the Oscar for best musical score deaf or something? Ennio Morricone has been composing for most of his life; his latest non-Oscar for Malena is the latest kick in the teeth. Along with John Williams (Star Wars), Jerry Goldsmith (Chinatown), Bernard Hermann (Taxi Driver) and those crazy cats that did the score for Apocalypse Now, Morricone stands amongst the best.

Several of his scores are unsurpassed for sheer beauty, like the scores for Once Upon a Time in the West, Once Upon a Time in America and The Mission; all tug on the heartstrings like Tuco's neck at the end of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

However, it is Morricone's earlier work on Sergio Leone's Spaghetti Western trilogy which includes A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More and The Good, The Bad and The Ugly which stands out most. In comparison to other composers Morricone is the Aphex Twin to John Williams (early) Beach Boys, mixing strange noises that are part of the very fabric of the score, deconstructing the very strict rules of classical/film score music. He was commissioned in 1964 to compose a score for a remake of Japanese visionary Akira Kurosawa's Yojimbo called A Fistful of Dollars. The film itself was remarkable for it's violence and was perhaps the most realistic depiction of the Wild West.

Morricone was a big fan of traditional Mexican folk music and particularly the use of the human voice as an instrument. Taking Woody Guthrie's "Pastures of Plenty" and adding this element, Morricone came up with something simple and quite remarkable. Using a human whistle and a guitar, both performed by fellow Italian Alessandro Alessadroni, the music sounds like a paradox, sad and lonely compared to the violence of the film. The use of the whistle was meant to suggest the solitude of the outlaw (played by Clint Eastwood) character in the film, much like Handel's use of instruments in Peter and the Wolf to represent different characters. The track typically also uses the shouted voices ("We can fight"), the bell and the definitive change of pace towards the end of the piece.

In the next film For a Few Dollars More (1965), Morricone extended his musical palette, the score was similar with Alessadroni just doing the whistling without the guitar, but with more human voices and an instrument that sounds as though it belongs in native Australian folk music. Also this time Morricone used more traditionally classical instruments such as violins. The influence of the violin played fast is evoked in '70's classic funk such as Isaac Hayes Oscar winning Theme from Shaft.

Morricone perhaps didn't change the basics because the score was a great part of the identity of Eastwood's central character and the 'Spaghetti Westerns.' An electric guitar (from a classical composer!) plays the simple central motif which like the similar "Apache" by The Shadows has been used in free-style hip-hop and on Babe Ruth's brilliant "The Mexican." Typically novelty barroom orchestras have also turned the score into 'cheesy shit.'

The success of the first films had bought Morricone and Leone time. All along Leone had wanted music that fitted to every action, every bit of silence was there for a reason.

The extra time and resources given to Morricone ended up with one of the best opening film scores ever. Like Vertigo's central piece and sleaze jazz, it is an essential part of the film. It also has been well parodied by Eastwood's later film Kelly's Heroes. Although undeniably pompous and operatic the main theme for The Good, The Bad and The Ugly (1966) is stunning in it's originality and it's emotional depth. It's central 'Wah-wah-wah,' performed with whistle and human voices, will always bring to mind any Western. It's both dense but accessible at the same time. Morricone effectively mixes concert music and simulated animal sounds (which Morricone used to represent the savage nature of the Wild West); you cannot take it in the first time you hear it.

Like all the other themes it starts relatively calm, then the military drums come in (definitely representing the theme of war in the film), the drumming does get more frantic, typically electric guitar then main/vital choral voices join. All the instruments converge at the end in some kind of wild and over the top crescendo. The best way to describe it would be Beethoven on acid, trapped in a forest full of wolves. The main refrain is relentlessly repeated throughout the film like a motif, especially on plot changing moments and those of a comic nature.

Taken in the context of the period, the mid '60's, it fits in well with the experimentation of the acid scene that was sweeping culture in general. The Beatles were making astonishing music what with "Tomorrow Never Knows" and "A Day in the Life." It also appears that classical composers were getting on the experimentation boat as well as the popular artists.

After the success of all three films both Morricone and Leone moved on to more serious work. Their next film together, Once Upon A Time in West, yielded both a more serious, heartfelt story and less operatic but no less beautiful music. Westerns generally disappeared from view after the Spaghetti Westerns, Michael Cimino's epic Heaven's Gate in 1978 being a swansong for the genre.

Morricone and Leone effectively destroyed the genre that '50's Western master-actor John Wayne and director John Ford had tried to portray America's birth as a nation as a golden age. If anything Morricone had composed the soundtrack to which these 'lies' were stomped underfoot, and that's no bad thing.
Title: Re: Fistful Vocals.
Post by: Dlanor on January 19, 2005, 12:12:16 PM
Could anyone put this score online?
Title: Re: Fistful Vocals.
Post by: KERMIT on January 20, 2005, 05:16:12 AM
Could anyone put this score online?
it would solve all my troubles if some body could
 
Title: Re: Fistful Vocals.
Post by: Sentenza on January 20, 2005, 12:09:13 PM
Peter Tevis' rendition of Per un Pugno di Dollari is included on the German Canto Morricone Vol. 2 compilation on Bear Family Records.

Scroll down the page for a measly 30 second clip of the song in gloriously rotten wma:
 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000282PP/ (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000282PP/)
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: iceman on January 20, 2005, 01:23:07 PM
Ice - I agree that in the film music and soundtrack albums that the chants do sound more like "we can fight" than the "with the wind" in the fully vocalized version.  Maybe in the fully vocalized version the background singers were english-speaking and maybe Italians phonetically vocalized them for "Fistful". 

Cusser - you maybe interested in this site where the 3rd or  4th paragraph suggests its actually "in the wind". It also gives some interesting facts on morricones music...there are a few pages to read.

Ice
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/features/morricone2.asp
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: visitor on January 20, 2005, 01:34:35 PM
watch the film again. pay close attention to the riding sequence where the Baxter and Rojo gangs are racing to the cemetery to get thewounded(dead)soldiers.
"with the wind" still appears in the music here.

I've read that EM didn't care what the chants were when he recorded the score, that it was unimportant, and it was left up to Alessandro Alessandroni to direct the vocalists.
Title: Re: Fistful Vocals.
Post by: iceman on February 08, 2005, 03:57:05 AM
Peter Tevis' rendition of Per un Pugno di Dollari is included on the German Canto Morricone Vol. 2 compilation on Bear Family Records.

Scroll down the page for a measly 30 second clip of the song in gloriously rotten wma:
 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000282PP/ (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000282PP/)


Anyone interested in slightly different versions of the soundtracks should listen to "Ennio Morricone..The Soundtracks" on the Dejavu Retro Gold Collection. No. R2CD 42-43.
2CD's with booklet.  Cost me about £8 GBP's in Majorca. Great to hear different versions than the film scores although they are very close....

Ice
Title: Re: Fistful of Pastures
Post by: Sentenza on February 10, 2005, 05:08:17 AM
http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2XM71H42I2A3W06RHMZTG6VYMI

http://s10.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2UETG1ZEIMWWN0ZFNXWI1J8TWO
Title: Re: Fistful Vocals.
Post by: Belkin on February 10, 2005, 04:47:52 PM
I know this has come up before but has anybody come across the single version which has on the B side a song which begins;
"FOR A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS HE WILL KILL ANY MAN"..... Sung to the FOD main theme.
Lost the single years ago but would love to get the full lyrics to this one! Anybody got it?
Title: Re: Fistful Vocals.
Post by: iceman on February 11, 2005, 09:11:52 AM
I know this has come up before but has anybody come across the single version which has on the B side a song which begins;
"FOR A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS HE WILL KILL ANY MAN"..... Sung to the FOD main theme.
Lost the single years ago but would love to get the full lyrics to this one! Anybody got it?

SEE CUSSER ABOVE
Title: Re: Fistful Vocals.
Post by: mortimerforever on March 11, 2005, 10:55:00 AM
According to HH's Western book, the Mexicans are saying 'We defy' and 'with the wind' in Titoli.
Title: Re: Fistful Vocals.
Post by: mortimerforever on March 30, 2005, 01:59:10 AM
Oh, they also say similar things in FAFDM's title music.
Title: Evolution of Titoli
Post by: Sanjuro on August 27, 2006, 01:16:51 AM
Everybody knows that the chorus of "Titoli" says "we can fight, we can fight!" right? Right. If you listen to the OST (original soundtrack) CD, that's what you hear (also on the film).

But when I looked at an old thread in this forum from a couple of years ago (2004 to 2005) I found that there was some confusion going on. One member says the chorus sounds like "we can fight, we can fight" while another says it’s "with the wind, with the wind." Actually they are both right. There are two different versions of  "Titoli." Apparently, neither of them had both versions.

As you may know already, Leone immediately liked the music of "Pastures of Plenty" arranged by Morricone and wanted to use it for his first western. But I didn't know this episode until I watched a BBC documentary on Morricone several years ago.  I also didn't know that this Morricone's version of "Pastures of Plenty" with Peter Tevis's vocal was released in 1962 until I read about it in a Japanese book "Macaroni Westerns."

Japanese single cut of Peter Tevis's "Pastures of Plenty"
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/283/ptto2.jpg)

When you listen to this Morricone version of "Pastures of Plenty," you can instantly tell this is really the prototype of "Titoli." While the melody of Tevis's song is very similar to Woody Guthrie's original song, Morricone’s orchestration is almost identical to “Titoli.” It already has the sounds of the whip and the bell and the chorus in the background. 

Woody Guthrie's original "Pastures of Plenty"
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1999/wgzc8.jpg)

In Morricone’s “Pastures of Plenty,” when Tevis sings “we come with the dust and go with the wind,” the chorus carry on the last phrase “with the wind.”

As Leone requested, Morricone replaced Tevis’s vocal with Allessandroni’s whistle. The rest remained including the chorus of "with the wind, with the wind." And this mix was cut for RCA single cut OST in Europe and Victor in Japan. And this is the version people played and listened to first.

Japanese single cut OST released in 1965
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8167/fodjacketkm7.jpg)

I’m not sure about Europe, but in Japan, as far as I know, the FOD OST LP was not available until it was coupled with FFDM OST and released through RCA. This RCA LP contains different “Titoli” from the RCA and Victor single cuts. Now the chorus says “we can fight, we can fight!” and the second guitar solo plays different melody. In another words, this mix is exactly the same as the one used for the film.

This is my guess. The mix used for the single cut was the primary mix and the mix used for the LP was the final one. Why was the primary mix used for the single cut, I don’t know. I should have asked this question to Allessandroni when I met him last summer.
       

Title: Re: Evolution of Titoli
Post by: marmota-b on August 27, 2006, 01:47:15 AM
Really interesting!
Title: Re: Evolution of Titoli
Post by: Silenzio on August 27, 2006, 02:14:33 PM
Very informative.
Title: Re: Evolution of Titoli
Post by: dave jenkins on August 27, 2006, 04:44:03 PM
Thanks, Sanjuro. A couple earlier threads addressed this topic (as you mentioned), and one features some helpful research from several posters, most notably Cusser: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1413.0
Title: Re: Evolution of Titoli
Post by: Sanjuro on August 27, 2006, 09:52:08 PM
Thanks, Sanjuro. A couple earlier threads addressed this topic (as you mentioned), and one features some helpful research from several posters, most notably Cusser: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1413.0

Dave, thanks for the link to the old thread. I read the old posts and all links refered to in them again.  But none suggests why the two different mixes.

I just listened to the original "Pastures of Plenty" by Woody Guthrie and Peter Tevis's cover. Then I realized that Tevis altered the lyrics a little.

In my previous post, I wrote "when Tevis sings “we come with the dust and go with the wind,” the chorus carry on the last phrase “with the wind.”  This part is from Guthrie's original lyrics. But Tevis changed it to "I come with the dust and I'm gone with the wind."

I also found that in Guthrie's original lyrics, there is a phrase "We'll work in this fight and we'll fight till win."*

Since the song is about migrate workers, Guthrie was singing for their struggles.   

This is my guess again.  Morricone might have got an inspiration from the above phrase that repeats the word "fight" and he changed the original chorus of "with the wind" in the primary mix to the new chorus, "we can fight" for the final mix. And I don't think this guess is really far off.

* Tevis changed this phrase to "We come with the dust and we're gone with the wind."
Title: Re: Evolution of Titoli
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 28, 2006, 06:51:31 AM
Interesting stuff Sanjuro, thanks for posting.  ;)
Title: Starting credits music.
Post by: Faisalha9159 on February 27, 2007, 02:01:30 PM
Does anyone know the words which are being said in the music score at the beginning of this film?

Sounds vaguely like someone is saying, "We can win"......not sure if I am right.
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: The Peacemaker on February 27, 2007, 03:03:00 PM
Does anyone know the words which are being said in the music score at the beginning of this film?

Sounds vaguely like someone is saying, "We can win"......not sure if I am right.

They're not real words.

It's just gibberish.


Morricone didn't use actual lyrics in the soundtracks of any Leone films except A Fistful of Dynamite where a singer chants " Sean, Sean, Sean. "
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: Kurug3n on February 27, 2007, 03:38:59 PM
They're not real words.

It's just gibberish.


Morricone didn't use actual lyrics in the soundtracks of any Leone films except A Fistful of Dynamite where a singer chants " Sean, Sean, Sean. "

what? I swear i could hear GO!GO!AMIGO! in the GBU theme song
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: The Peacemaker on February 27, 2007, 03:41:00 PM
what? I swear i could hear GO!GO!AMIGO! in the GBU theme song

Don't let the DVD subtitles fool you.

It's not intended to sound like anything but animal barks.
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: Sanjuro on February 27, 2007, 08:47:37 PM
Actually, it says "We can fight, we can fight." Originally, the chorus said "with the wind, with the wind". It is the remaining of Morricone version of "Patures of Plenty" which is the origin of the theme music "Titoli". Morricone rearranged Woody Guthrie's song and Peter Tevis sang. The chorus was used after Tevis sang "We come with the dust and we go with the wind."

Because Leone liked the tune, Morricone simply replaced the vocal with Alessadroni's whistle. The primary soundtrack record still has the chorus saying "with the wind, with the wind." Eventually, the final soundtrack had the changed chorus saying "we can fight, we can fight" and that's what you hear at the opening of the film. However, the primary chorus "with the wind, with the wind" is still used in the middle of the film.

I posted a thread on the same top last year.
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=4024.0   
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: marmota-b on March 10, 2007, 01:55:56 AM
Don't let the DVD subtitles fool you.

It's not intended to sound like anything but animal barks.

But I heard something like that, too - without subtitles fooling me. ;D
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on March 11, 2007, 08:39:33 PM
In the end it doesn't really matter what they're saying, just listen to the great music for what it is!!! O0
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: The Peacemaker on March 11, 2007, 08:41:23 PM
In the end it doesn't really matter what they're saying, just listen to the great music for what it is!!! O0

Agreed.
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: marmota-b on March 11, 2007, 10:58:52 PM
In the end it doesn't really matter what they're saying, just listen to the great music for what it is!!! O0

Of course it doesn't matter, I only needed to add my ... how many cents you say?
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on April 21, 2007, 11:37:53 PM
Does anyone know the words which are being said in the music score at the beginning of this film?

Sounds vaguely like someone is saying, "We can win"......not sure if I am right.

There seems to be more than one version around. In the opening credits in the MGM DVD, the words sound like "we can fight", but I believe that in the version I saw many years ago (early 70s) in Spain the words sounded like "we can win", same as it now does in the rest of the movie. I remember this because at that time I had purchased the original movie soundtrack in 33-1/3RPM record, and in the record the words sound like "we can fight", which I noticed were different from the ones I heard in the movie opening title.
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: Silenzio on April 22, 2007, 09:20:28 AM
Yes, there must be more than one version.  Whenever i watch the dvd, it sounds EXACTLY like "We can fight! We can fight!" whereas on the version they have on my computer it says "With the wind! With the wind!" (and, if they were actually saying anything, they were definitely saying With the Wind and not We Can Win.  Listen to Peter Tevis' version of Pastures of Plenty for confirmation).
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: The Peacemaker on April 22, 2007, 03:57:08 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again...


The vocals used in Leone's films are not words except for DYS with the "Sean, Sean, Sean."
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: Mr. Pseudonym on April 22, 2007, 05:22:01 PM
Ha-ha, when I have the closed captions turned on for my FOD VHS tape (hope to get the DVD soon), they say "weak men weep," I wonder where they get these ideas... :-\
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on June 19, 2008, 11:35:49 PM
There seems to be more than one version around. In the opening credits in the MGM DVD, the words sound like "we can fight", but I believe that in the version I saw many years ago (early 70s) in Spain the words sounded like "we can win", same as it now does in the rest of the movie. I remember this because at that time I had purchased the original movie soundtrack in 33-1/3RPM record, and in the record the words sound like "we can fight", which I noticed were different from the ones I heard in the movie opening title.

This is the other version I was talking about over one year ago. However, I am convinced that a harmonica was also playing for about 10 seconds in the original I saw (starting at the 1:55 part of the theme in the link). I like this version far more than the one included in the DVD, especially the 15 seconds that go between 1:50 and 2:05. Have you guys (and gals) heard this version before?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaNogNtT0zA

Following is the version on the DVD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDavbqqRPyQ
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: Cusser on June 21, 2008, 05:31:49 AM
The version on Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaNogNtT0zA is on a CD I have, along with the "traditional" version from the film/DVD, and the Peter Tevis vocal of Pastures of Plenty.  The Pastures of Plenty track has same/similar music as that Youtube version, and no whistling at the beginning.  I'd need to check whether that CD was a bootleg someone ent me or the commercially-available update from Europe.

I've read here that Leone liked the Pastures of Plenty, got Morricone to ditch the vocals, which morphed into the the traditional theme.  The YouTube version may be an intermediate version.
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: Silenzio on June 21, 2008, 06:37:08 AM
Correct.  Morricone did the arrangements for Peter Tevis, and the version of Pastures of Plenty they did was later re-used for Fistful of Dollars (without the vocals).

Also, I thought you guys might be interested in knowing that, in the original Peter Tevis version, the chorus chants "With the wind."  You can tell because they immediately follow the line "We come with the dust, and we go with the wind..."


The version Cusser posted has a little instrumental section before the vocals.  This is the version I've always listened to (where the singing starts almost immediately):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAE9tFd6WkQ



For comparison, here is the original Woody Guthrie version of Pastures of Plenty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDKYkvuRXik
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on June 21, 2008, 01:42:51 PM
Thank you all for your enlightening responses. Now it all becomes clear to me.
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: iceman on June 22, 2008, 02:00:46 PM
Does anyone know the words which are being said in the music score at the beginning of this film?

Sounds vaguely like someone is saying, "We can win"......not sure if I am right.

As Sanjuro said it is "With the Wind"......but aren't these singers Italian so maybe not that good at English  so sounds like....

" Wi da Win"  " Wi da win" which sounds a little like We can Win.........Just my two penneth....


ICE
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: archangel on June 25, 2008, 06:14:49 PM
hi,
archangel here.
i'm an audio engineer.
the FOD title "titoli" uses the words "WE CAN FIGHT" in the male chorus and nothing else.
case closed.
Archie.
Title: Re: Starting credits music.
Post by: sargatanas on June 28, 2008, 02:10:46 PM
right, we can fight.
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: drinkanddestroy on December 22, 2011, 05:06:25 PM


Here is Peter Tevis singing Pastures of Plenty with the same musical arrangements used in FOD's main theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAE9tFd6WkQ&feature=related

As you'll hear, Tevis repeatedly says the phrase "With the Wind," so there is no doubt that the "unintelligible lyrics" heard in this song are "with the wind."

However, does that necessarily mean that the lyrics used in the theme song for FOD are the same? It made sense to use "with the wind" for Pastures of Plenty, cuz those are the lyrics that are part of the song itself. However, when Morricone used the same musical arrangements to create a theme song for FOD, does it not make sense that -- since the words with the wind" have no meaning to the FOD song/movie -- perhaps he would have changed those lyrics to something else (eg. "we can fight"?)

I am far from certain as to what the lyrics in the FOD song are (though IMO it sounds closer to "we can fight" than "with the wind"). All I am saying is that just because it is "with the wind" in the Pastures of Plenty version, doesn't necessarily mean that "with the wind" was also used for the FOD version.

Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: Cusser on December 23, 2011, 09:19:40 AM
When I first heard Pastures of Plenty was the source material for Fistful of Dollars theme, I found Woody Guthrie version on YouTube, not so easy to tell the connection (at least for me).  So hearing Tevis/Morricone version was really helpful, and cool, as well.

In one of the Fistful tracks (not the title) one can hear very clearly the "with the wind" chant.  But I still don't know about in the film title music.  For years, my brothers and I thought it was "we can fight", and that sounded dumb to us.  But listen to the lyrics i Death Rides a Horse title: something like "who'll be the first to draw his gun" and "who'll be the first to hit the ground".  When I saw the Spaghetti Western Orchestra (look them up on Google or YouTube) play in Arizona, they held up cue cards with the lyrics for the audience to see how silly the lyrics really were !!!
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: drinkanddestroy on December 30, 2011, 06:58:39 AM
just listened to the FOD theme again, and I can say with 100% certainty that the lyrics on that version are NOT "With the Wind."

Since the words "With the Wind" are part of the Pastures of Plenty song, it makes sense there. But it makes no sense for FOD, so it was changed to something else; sounds something like "We Can Fight," but I am far from certain about that. What i am certain about is that in "Pastures of Plenty" it is "With the Wind," and in FOD it is NOT "With the Wind"
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on January 15, 2012, 10:52:44 AM
just listened to the FOD theme again, and I can say with 100% certainty that the lyrics on that version are NOT "With the Wind."

Since the words "With the Wind" are part of the Pastures of Plenty song, it makes sense there. But it makes no sense for FOD, so it was changed to something else; sounds something like "We Can Fight," but I am far from certain about that. What i am certain about is that in "Pastures of Plenty" it is "With the Wind," and in FOD it is NOT "With the Wind"



"We can fight" version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbEEKVFEeHI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjjDOdaFZg0

"With the wind" version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaNogNtT0zA


Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 15, 2012, 02:53:50 PM

"We can fight" version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbEEKVFEeHI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjjDOdaFZg0

"With the wind" version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaNogNtT0zA




wow, THANKS FOR POSTING!  O0 O0 O0 I had no idea that there were two different versions!

The one that sounds like "We Can Fight" (again, I am not sure that's what it says) is from the movie. What's the "With the Wind" version from? maybe you shouild post a comment there and ask where it's from -- is it from a soundtrack album? Maybe the American version of the movie's credits had one set of lyrics, while in other countries it had another?

Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on January 15, 2012, 05:52:16 PM
Hi,

As you see, this topic has been debated more than once in the past:

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=4024.msg47472#msg47472

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=5053.0

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1116.msg13783#msg13783


I hope the above threads answer most if not all of your questions.

There is a bootleg CD on the web with 35 tracks that contains both the "we can fight" and "with the wind" versions, plus Peter Tevis' version of Pastures of Plenty.
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 15, 2012, 06:34:47 PM
Hi,

As you see, this topic has been debated more than once in the past:

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=4024.msg47472#msg47472

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=5053.0

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1116.msg13783#msg13783


I hope the above threads answer most if not all of your questions.

There is a bootleg CD on the web with 35 tracks that contains both the "we can fight" and "with the wind" versions, plus Peter Tevis' version of Pastures of Plenty.

Thanks  O0

(Maybe the moderators can merge the topics).
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: cigar joe on January 16, 2012, 03:56:08 AM
merge it with what?
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 16, 2012, 08:32:43 AM
There are several threads discussing the same issue -- the lyrics to the FOD theme, and the fact that there are different versions of the lyrics: this thread, and the 3 threads whose links were provided by O'Cangaceiro to in the previous post.

 I didn't read through every single post in each of the threads, but it seems the four threads are more or less discussing the same issue. So perhaps it would make sense to consolidate them all -- by merging this thread and those 3 into just one thread? Consolidation would also ensure that anyone looking for info on this subject, can just read one thread and find all the available info this board has on the subject  :)
Title: Re: pastures of plenty
Post by: cigar joe on January 16, 2012, 05:00:16 PM
find them and i'll merge them
Title: Re: Evolution of Titoli
Post by: cigar joe on April 18, 2013, 03:34:50 AM
bump------ the bumps that are now removed (save this one) made it easier to combine the thread topics by "bumping" the threads to the top of their respective boards.
Title: Evolution of titoli
Post by: dave jenkins on April 18, 2013, 09:49:55 AM
Haven't noticed any change. He's still the same cranky guy he's always been.
Title: Re: Evolution of titoli
Post by: marmota-b on April 19, 2013, 04:44:57 AM
Haven't noticed any change. He's still the same cranky guy he's always been.

Who says the evolution is something that comes across via the internet?
Maybe he's a blue furred mutant.
I watch too much X-Men.
Title: Re: Evolution of titoli
Post by: dave jenkins on April 19, 2013, 03:07:49 PM
Maybe he's a blue furred mutant.
A blue furred mutant who still lives with his mom? OK, I can buy that.
Title: Re: Evolution of titoli
Post by: Groggy on April 20, 2013, 06:29:45 AM
A blue furred mutant who still lives with his mom? OK, I can buy that.

Is he a gay metaphor?
Title: Re: Fistful Vocals.
Post by: marmota-b on April 20, 2013, 08:03:48 AM
I was actually thinking of watching too much X-Men Evolution... and watching too much animated TV series on YouTube really is too much.
Anyway, somehow I don't think there are gay metaphors in that. Although if someone believes firmly in them, they'll find them anywhere, like invisible cats. Thank you for the simile, Mr C.S. Lewis.

Enough of that!
Title: Evolution of titoli
Post by: dave jenkins on April 20, 2013, 04:41:36 PM
Although if someone believes firmly in them, they'll find them anywhere, like invisible cats. Thank you for the simile, Mr C.S. Lewis.
But who believes in invisible cats? Find me even one person. Sometimes Mr. Lewis's Platonism leads him astray.
Title: Re: Evolution of titoli
Post by: marmota-b on April 21, 2013, 01:23:35 AM
But who believes in invisible cats? Find me even one person. Sometimes Mr. Lewis's Platonism leads him astray.

We will have to agree to disagree. I do not think people believe in invisible cats, but I think the simile is strong enough to show the point.
(I hope you know where that comes from; I hate to take people's words out of context, though it can't be helped.)
Title: Re: Fistful Vocals.
Post by: titoli on December 23, 2013, 12:09:41 PM
For a fistful of dollars he is ready to kill
His gun is for hire
and he's famed for his skills

His spurs jingle jangle
as he rides into town
and he's searching for
the one man that he knows
very soon
he'll shoot down.

For a fistful of dollars he is
ruthless and bold
His eyes flashing fire
but his heart is so cold
and he knows
he must shoot him dead
fill him full of lead
we're
told
just for gold. 

(lyrics by Robert Mellin)

I copied these from a music sheet. There are other songs whose lyrics were, apparently, written by same: Silent Love and The Story of Ringo, plus an instrumental from Fistful called The Man with No Name to which Mellin is said to have written words for. I don't know if recorded version of these songs were ever produced: anybody here knows more about it? Here:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=35551&forumID=1&archive=1

people seem not to have a clue.