Sergio Leone Web Board

General Information => General Discussion => Topic started by: ray_gillespie on April 04, 2005, 04:42:14 AM

Title: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: ray_gillespie on April 04, 2005, 04:42:14 AM
This has been bugging me for such a long time, I cannot decide which film I prefer out of TGTBATU and OUATITW, so I have decided to have a poll to find out what the general opinion is. I've deliberately not used a "Don't know" because that's the easy option  :)

Thanks to everyone that votes.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: SeanSeanSean on April 04, 2005, 02:42:04 PM
This has been bugging me for such a long time, I cannot decide which film I prefer out of TGTBATU and OUATITW, so I have decided to have a poll to find out what the general opinion is. I've deliberately not used a "Don't know" because that's the easy option  :)

Thanks to everyone that votes.
Really! How can you compare the GBU a breakthrough but traditional western to OUATITW an operatic masterpiece?
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Christopher on April 04, 2005, 04:21:46 PM
To be honest, I've only seen Once Upon a Time in the West one time, and I really, really liked it. But I don't believe I'll ever like it as much as The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Chessie on April 04, 2005, 05:25:08 PM
While I really enjoy OUATITW, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly remains my favorite out of the two.  I love how it moves and the witty writing is just so smart.  The performances in both are great.  While I do thnk OUATITW is a great piece of work, very stunning, I think GBU is better.   :)
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: ray_gillespie on April 05, 2005, 01:00:53 AM
Really! How can you compare the GBU a breakthrough but traditional western to OUATITW an operatic masterpiece?

I see your point clearly, and after seeing TGTBATU only once I did actually prefer OUATITW, but on repeat viewings TGTBATU has grown on me immensely. Although Bronson is awesome, I definately prefer Clint. Perhaps if OUATITW had Clint instead of Brosnan I would find that my favourite film. But as it stands, I just don't know.

Oh and thanks to everyone that has voted so far  :)
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Leone Admirer on April 05, 2005, 04:59:55 AM
Looks Like I managed to make it even for OUATUTW. I love both but West stands out as being the best for me.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: bronsky on April 05, 2005, 08:11:38 AM
GBU. Never drags.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: anancientrace on April 05, 2005, 11:14:51 AM
Once Upon A Time In The West has been my favourite film since its release in Great Britain in 1969 - so the query about The Good The Bad The Ugly film being better is a redundant question as far as I am concerned.

Just sit down and watch both films sometime and tell me that Leone didn't progress between the making of the two films. From the opening - which has never been surpassed (hell its soooo good, no-one has even tried to better it) it is a masterwork. I have had hours of endless fun discussing the nuances of this movie on IMDb and have enjoyed watching the train crash that was the first version released being rectified over the years until the movie is an acknowledged classic - discussed by professors and movie buffs the world over. The Good The Bad etc hasn't that sort of status and never will have - although it was a good film. Anyway, in my opinion, Sergio Leone best Eastwood western was A Few Dollars More - it was stripped down and exciting.  A good double act with Lee Van Cleef and it wasn't so bloated with Civil Wars, chasing Army Gold etc. 8)
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Groggy on April 05, 2005, 03:33:05 PM
Seems like my vote - for OUATITW of course - evened it back up. :P ;D
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: SeanSeanSean on April 05, 2005, 07:38:43 PM
I see your point clearly, and after seeing TGTBATU only once I did actually prefer OUATITW, but on repeat viewings TGTBATU has grown on me immensely. Although Bronson is awesome, I definately prefer Clint. Perhaps if OUATITW had Clint instead of Brosnan I would find that my favourite film. But as it stands, I just don't know.

I'm sorry but as was stated on other posts, Bronson is the man for OUATITW. Clint's man with no name, could not be credible with a personal grudge gnawing at him. And the close ups, the face...Bronson is the man all the way. This being said. Today's Clint might pull it off...as he did in Unforgiven...but back in '68 come on. I also agree with the comment that FAFDM is more effective that the GBU.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: ray_gillespie on April 06, 2005, 01:26:10 AM
I'm sorry but as was stated on other posts, Bronson is the man for OUATITW.
Well that's what you think, yeah, and I'll go along with your suggestion. But just because it's been stated on other posts doesn't make it fact, and my opinion is that PERHAPS I would like OUATITW more if it had Clint in it.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: SeanSeanSean on April 06, 2005, 03:46:20 PM
Well that's what you think, yeah, and I'll go along with your suggestion. But just because it's been stated on other posts doesn't make it fact, and my opinion is that PERHAPS I would like OUATITW more if it had Clint in it.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: dave jenkins on April 06, 2005, 08:55:30 PM
This is one of those impossible choices like "Elvis or The Beatles" or "The Illiad or The Odyssey." People *do* have their preferences, but such preferences don't reveal much about the putative topic under discussion. Instead, they reveal more about the person expressing the preference.

I prefer GBU to OUATITW, just as I favor The Odyssey over The Illiad, because I like stories that are full of episodes and have characters who cover a lot of geography. But GBU doesn't have the formal rigor of OUATITW, so I can see why many people like OUATITW better. It's apples and oranges, really, and although most days I'd rather eat an orange, the day always comes when nothing satisfies quite like a crisp Pink Lady.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: DJIMBO on April 07, 2005, 01:09:49 PM
Once Upon a Time in the West. the difference is GBU is a populist film and alot of fun with leone gettin everything spot on. but OUATITW is something else, its art-house, edgy, quite like no film ive ever seen before, its not just an entertaining film.
btw Dave Jenkins the stones piss over beatles and elvis lol


This is one of those impossible choices like "Elvis or The Beatles" or "The Illiad or The Odyssey." People *do* have their preferences, but such preferences don't reveal much about the putative topic under discussion. Instead, they reveal more about the person expressing the preference.

I prefer GBU to OUATITW, just as I favor The Odyssey over The Illiad, because I like stories that are full of episodes and have characters who cover a lot of geography. But GBU doesn't have the formal rigor of OUATITW, so I can see why many people like OUATITW better. It's apples and oranges, really, and although most days I'd rather eat an orange, the day always comes when nothing satisfies quite like a crisp Pink Lady.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Half Soldier on April 07, 2005, 02:08:28 PM
I'm not doing the poll as I'll have changed my mind within hours.  I think the right films were chosen though.  BTW Djimbo - THE WHO beat the stones  ;)
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: ucilio on April 07, 2005, 05:24:49 PM
I like GBU a lot but in no way come close to OUATITW complexity and masterful direction. OUATITW is certainly a great Western from all aspects specially sound track.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Unkernown on April 08, 2005, 01:49:20 AM
I agree with Djimbo's point about GBU being more entertaining - but I think this gives GBU the edge.  Sometimes I think OUTITIW can sometimes get a bit TOO arty, whereas GBU is just populist enough to prevent it becoming dull, and just arty enough to make it the best film ever.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: DJIMBO on April 08, 2005, 04:20:49 AM
unkernown i see where ur comin from u have to be more patient with OUATITW.

Half soldier, i do love the who, but can u beat Gimme Shelter???
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Nobody on April 08, 2005, 07:56:29 AM
OUATITW used to my favourite Leone film, but now I prefer GBU and OUATIA, so my vote goes for GBU. Can't really say why, all the three films I've mentioned here are pure perfection as far as I'm concerned. It might have something to do with The Ecstacy of Gold.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: ray_gillespie on April 08, 2005, 08:07:43 AM
It might have something to do with The Ecstacy of Gold.

Ha ha! I see exactly where you're coming from. The music in that scene is just incredible, and coupled with the amazing camera work, it makes it one of my favourite scenes in any film ever. The Ecstacy of Gold has to be one of Morricone's finest moments.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Unkernown on April 08, 2005, 08:30:13 AM
Djimbo, I dare say I'll grow to appreciate OUTITW more as I watch it more - having seen GBU more probably gives me my bias.  That said, I don't think there's anything especially bad about it now.  It's just that GBUs better!
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Half Soldier on April 08, 2005, 01:38:38 PM


Half soldier, i do love the who, but can u beat Gimme Shelter???

Djimbo - going a bit off topic here but I don't know Gimme Shelter.  I liked the early blues covers of Howlin' Wolf, Chuck Berry and Robert Johnson and their own early songwriting is nice enough but I only know the hits.  Maybe I should explore a bit.  The Who took over my life for a while some years ago and i still feel a bit of loyalty.   Apologies to everyone expecting the pros and cons of gbu vs outitw :-*
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: redyred on April 09, 2005, 03:53:50 AM
Somewhat related point - the other day I discovered this imdb fixed ratings page which ranks films using IMDb's raw data but calculated with a straight mean rather than the "weighted average" used by IMDb itself. Have a look how the positions for GBU and OUTW:

http://www.azillionmonkeys.com/qed/imdbfix.shtml

compare with on IMDb's top 250:

http://www.imdb.com/chart/top
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: ray_gillespie on April 09, 2005, 04:55:22 AM
Very interesting! I'm not sure what criteria IMDB use, but I thought that they exclude 'fake' votes that appear to have the only purpose of screwing up the real votes. Something like that anyway.
Strangely, the new 'fixed ratings' page appears to show considerably more recent films in the top 100 compared to the original IMDB. I must say though, I agree much more with the original IMDB top 100.
Interesting page however, nicely pointed out!
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: cigar joe on April 09, 2005, 05:46:07 AM
Quote
Strangely, the new 'fixed ratings' page appears to show considerably more recent films in the top 100 compared to the original IMDB. I must say though, I agree much more with the original IMDB top 100.
Interesting page however, nicely pointed out!



You kind of touched on what I was thinking that newer films are going to rank higher than oldies since the "Computer Age" demographic is younger. This is evident on the New York Times top 100 films. Recent releases tend to make big impressions. You'd think there would have to be some type of grading curve to level the playing field, ie., more points for a vote for a film the older it is by decade, or some such factor. If a movie was good enough to still be remembered and voted for it should get more weight in a poll, don't you guys think? 
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Cusser on April 09, 2005, 07:46:36 AM
And some ratings go by box office dollars, really dumb because inflation isn't taken into consideration.  My mom saw Gone with the Wind in 1939 and it cost 25 cents.  Nowadays that would cost over $10 in most cities.  I'm sure when I first saw GBU in 1968 it was one dollar or less, and had to split proceeds as it was on a double-feature (with "The Party", for those who HAVE to know)..
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: KERMIT on April 09, 2005, 08:17:49 AM
i can't add to what has already been said. the party had a scene w/ sellers playing an extra who accidentally prematurely blows up a castle before shooting begins by reaching down to tie his bootlace on the plunger.  similar thing happened w/ the GB&U bridge # 1.  i wonder if blake edwards got wind of this and was inspired to create seller's scene.
i've checked up on the release dates of both films and there is a 3 month period after GB&U was released which
would may or may not have given blake palmer time to write what happened to leone & crew in real life into one of the funnest comedy sketchs sellers ever did.

Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Nobody on April 09, 2005, 09:27:48 AM
KERMIT, I assume you mean Blake Edwards? Nevertheless, an interesting point, I never thought of GBU when I saw The Party. Wonderful film, Peter Sellers/Blake Edwards was a great duo.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: KERMIT on April 09, 2005, 02:01:58 PM
KERMIT, I assume you mean Blake Edwards? Nevertheless, an interesting point, I never thought of GBU when I saw The Party. Wonderful film, Peter Sellers/Blake Edwards was a great duo.
yea, got it ! mr. edward's name corrected NB. i can remember fictional names of characters in films but not real people.  :-[  thanks again !!  and thanks also for the thumbs up on "the party"  ;D
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: ray_gillespie on April 10, 2005, 02:24:12 AM
Just noticed that GBU is starting to get a real lead on OUATITW. I'd have thought that GBU would be more popular among general films fans, whereas OUATITW would be more popular among fans of Leone.
I bet considerably more people have seen GBU than OUATITW.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Blondie on April 11, 2005, 10:58:44 AM
Once Upon A Time In The West.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: ray_gillespie on April 20, 2005, 02:50:36 AM
It looks like GBU just about has it in the poll. Having now rewatched both films, I've decided that OUATITW is my favourite, though only by the slightest margin.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: SeanSeanSean on April 23, 2005, 06:31:45 AM
I'm relieved to see that OUATITW has caught up.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: ray_gillespie on April 24, 2005, 02:09:06 AM
He he but for how long? I think OUATITW has yet to take the lead.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Leonardo on April 24, 2005, 09:25:49 AM
He he but for how long? I think OUATITW has yet to take the lead.
Here you go: OUTITW, no doubt is the best movie ever shot.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: dave jenkins on April 25, 2005, 12:53:10 AM
I'm rooting for a tie.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: ray_gillespie on April 25, 2005, 06:38:45 AM
Looks like GBU has taken the lead once more! I think I'll have to decide upon a cut off point, like first to 25 votes, or maybe whoever has the most at the end of May.
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: Leonegeek on May 01, 2005, 12:38:42 PM
There's no doubt, 'TGTBATU' is a huge, dazzling Western saga, made with oodles
of style, and much humor, but for this Leonegeek nothing compares to 'OUATITW'.
It's so artful, so powerful, dark, exasperating, infuriating, electrifying, funny, sad,
and most other adjectives at one time or another. It is in my top 3 favorite films
of all time - and it's my favorite Leone film. It's an 'art western', unlike 'TGTBATU'
which though very stylish, is just a great Spaghetti western, I think 'OUATITW'
achieves something more.

Thanks,

Leonegeek
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: dave jenkins on May 01, 2005, 08:20:35 PM
OUATITW is Leone's Illiad. GBU is his Odyssey. Both are incomparable. That's why I continue to chant: Tie, tie, tie, tie, tie.........
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: buff64 on May 02, 2005, 03:47:09 AM
 ;D i adore both movies but OUATITW is my favorite.
  i must've seen it a hundred times.Here in the States
  GBU been a lot more populare,something that movie deserves.i still root for OUATITW
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: dave jenkins on May 13, 2005, 08:59:45 PM
Still tied!!!!
Title: Re: The Ultimate Leone Poll
Post by: ray_gillespie on May 25, 2005, 02:42:05 AM
Seeing as we've had no votes for some time, I've decided to lock the voting. So now it's official, they are both equally amazing  ;D