Sergio Leone Web Board
Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: cigar joe on September 23, 2005, 08:54:53 PM
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Watched this (1980) post SW film directed by Walter Hill (Geronimo, Last Man Standing, Wild Bill, TV's Deadwood, and a writting credit for The Getaway) tonight, shows SW influences and those of Peckinpah, was a pretty good flick that sort of gets past over in everyone's lists a good actioner.
Has a neat concept that works pretty good. Four sets of brothers (Keach's, Quaids, Carradines, and Guests, play The James, Miller, Younger, and Ford brothers, scored by Ry Cooder, has the slo-mo gunshot action sequences similar to Peckinpah, culminates in the botched Northfield, Minnesota bank raid, (they are all wearing grey dusters which is true to the history of the raid and they do look pretty cool) though it plays a bit loose on the actual events (I believe Jesse had some or at least one Minnesotan along as a scout and or guide) but its definitely worth a look. It could have been an epic it would not have hurt to tell a little more detail of the story, the action sequences more than hold up the film, though there doesn't seem to be a distinct recogniseable style to Hill's direction.
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I liked "The Long Riders", though I think its reputation as a latter-day "Wild Bunch" is a bit much. The Northfield, Minnesota shootout is pretty well-done, though it wasn't 100% accurate either (Cole Younger received most of his wounds from the posse which arrested the gang, for instance). The main problem I had with the movie is that, unlike in "The Wild Bunch", you don't really sympathize with these guys, for the reason that they're criminals with little to recommend them. The stuff about them being bandits for "Dixie" is also a load of hogwash, if you do any research on the gang (they worked with both ex-Confederate and ex-Union troops at times, robbed from both Yanks and Rebs indiscriminately, and weren't particularly popular in their home state [accepting family 'course], except after the bombing of the James house). Still, as a movie, it was a good, if not great, piece of work. The acting was great all around (particularly David Carradine, who stole every scene he was in), and most of the action scenes were pretty good, if a little over-the-top. I'd give it a 7/10.
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I am very fond of both Walter Hill and this film, his finest western. I'm no expert western history, so I can't really comment on the historical accuracy. Still, I'm sold by the action sequences, the score, David Carradine, and Stacy Keach.
You should also check out Hill's flawed, but interesting Wild Bill. An art western if there ever was one. It seems that whether or not people like this film has to do with if they find Jeff Bridges to be convincing. I do.
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Saw this again today, thank god in english this time.
If there is a western better than this made in the last quarter of century it doesn't come to mind. This movie is faultless or almost: I find only 2, debatable, weaknesses: the slow motions and James Keach who just doesn't come to the fore as the leader. In facts one doesn't understand how he can rule over people like his brother or Cole Younger (as said, David Carradine gives an Oscar performance). Of course Stacy was perfect as Frank, so you had to take his brother with it. Documentary style combines perfectly with novelization. About the reasons that move the gang's action, I think they are made quite clear: no idealization behind it.
I would have been interested in hearing John Ford's opinion of a movie which makes use of some of Ford's ingredient like the home parties and dances (accurately researched) and love stories, but without those stereotypes which clutter the older man's movies. 9 out of 10.
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I agree done very well, one thing that would have been a bit more accurate was the town bridge should have been an arch bridge, minor quibble.
This raises my other question on lack of broadcast for these Westerns from the 70's? we hardly ever seen them on a regular cable package either.
Titioli, check out Hombe in English if you can get it, its one of my favorite AW's
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I agree done very well, one thing that would have been a bit more accurate was the town bridge should have been an arch bridge, minor quibble.
But how many people got aware of that? But apart from the inaccuracies (there are many, but all justified in view of the fact your doing an entertainment artifact, not a documentary) the movie is very, very good. A pity for James Keach (sure Jeff Bridges would have landed a better portrait of Jesse, though I don't think Beau could equal Stacy. A pity though that the Bridges couldn't make it for it).
This raises my other question on lack of broadcast for these Westerns from the 70's? we hardly ever seen them on a regular cable package either.
Yeah, let me understand what it is that you see on american channels because I haven't quite made it out yet.
About Hombre, I'll try to get a dvd if possible. I saw the movie 2 or 3 times but always dubbed. Over here I'd say that it is aired regularly once a year.
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I thought The Long Riders was an average western, and I'll agree with Groggy about the Wild Bunch comparison. It was a good movie, but it seemed short at only 99 minutes. The movie covered around 15 years of history, but there was little effort to show that time had passed other than Jesse's new beard or the brief scene showing them all going their separate way. And with the quick pacing, I would have liked to get to know all these outlaws better. At the end, I felt like I didn't know much about them, other than the knowledge I had going into the movie.
The thing I really enjoyed was the botched Northfield raid. The shots of the gang riding through town as they're getting ripped to pieces with their dusters flying in the wind was just cool. As for the cast, David Carradine and Stacy Keach stood out from the rest, especially Carradine, but I liked the idea of using all those sets of brothers. It added a sense of authenticity to the proceedings.
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I think that the strenght of the movie is the giving up of trying to explain in depth what makes these characters tick . They like a bandit life and do it as long as they can. So the passing of time has little meaning.
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Ressurecting this topic in light of the up comming "The Assasination of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford" premier.
Watched this again tonight, everyone should try and check it out, asap. Its a great flick about the James Gang and right now I'd say it's the bench mark film on the topic (just above the "Great Northfield Raid") to judge Brad Pitts film by.
Tonight I concentrated on Ry Cooders excellent period sounding score and the remarkable accuracy of the look of the Missouri-Kansas-Minnesota basically Western Midwest area of the gangs opperation.
Whoever located the filmimg locations in Geogria, Texas, & California did a great job. there were no high Sierra Mountian backdrop or desert looking locations. O0
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Ressurecting this topic in light of the up comming "The Assasination of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford" premier.
Watched this again tonight, everyone should try and check it out, asap. Its a great flick about the James Gang and right now I'd say it's the bench mark dilm on the topic (just above the "Great Northfield Raid") to judge Brad Pitts film by.
Tonight I concentrated on Ry Cooders excellent period sounding score and the remarkable accuracy of the look of the Missouri-Kansas-Minnesota basically Western Midwest area of the gangs opperation.
Whoever located the filmimg locations in Geogria, Texas, & California did a great job. there were no high Sierra Mountian backdrop or desert looking locations. O0
Saw this in the cinema the year it came out and liked it but haven't returned to it since. Okay, CJ, I'll be sure to get a DVD copy and given it another go.
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I always thought the greatness of Walter Hill's TLR was in its calmness, specific to all Hill's movies, that reflects his great admiration of the genre. The common spectator looking for blazing guns and mean pistoleros will, I'm sure, be very much disappointed with this movie. Then, this is a (Mid)Western, and I'm sure not too much of them enjoy a Western with no desert and sand. Finally, I'm personally not a big expert of that whole JJ matter, and to tell you the truth the more people talk and write about it the less I wanna know about it (and it never interested me that much to investigate it myself), but it seems it's hard nowadays to fulfill the appetite of the ''all-knowing'' audience. Everybody just knows how it was back then, but at the same time they want to be entertained, and pleased. Add these things together, plus the fact that it's almost 30 years old, and you'll know why they don't show it on TV anymore.
But, for those who love Westerns it will be easy to spot all the influences and all the care put in by the director in this movie. In almost every scene. All those things Leone, Ford, Peckinpah and the others did can be found here. The care for the folklore and the outfits, but at the same time the keeping of that mythic level, interesting faces, subtle witty humor, the presentation of how these people think, what they want with their life (Cole Younger going around with a whore, Clell Miller and Frank James talking about love, Jesse James trying to settle down)... Everything.
The best part is that Hill obviously understood that he could never do it bombastically like those guys before, and that copying them was not an option, so instead he did it calmly, really enjoying himself, and those who are willing to pay attention will find great reward in it.
8/10
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I liked all the performances. It was more unbelievable that James Keach would command David Carradine and the others than it was bad. Anyhow, it was compensated by Hill's decision to go with four sets of brothers.
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What's an "allowing" audience?
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A typo, I meant ''all-knowing'' as ''omniscient''. The Spell Checker probably changed it wrongly and I didn't notice.
It's all right now.
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Watched this again today and I didn't much like it this time around:
We continue our Western sojourn with Walter Hill's The Long Riders (1980), a rather pedestrian take on the Jesse James legend. Sam Peckinpah protege Hill learned how to film action scenes from Bloody Sam, but he evidentally didn't pick up on his mentor's penchant for crafting a good story. The result is a disappointing movie that should have been much better than it is.
Outlaws Jesse and Frank James (James and Stacey Keach), Cole, Bob and Jim Younger (David, Robert and Keith Carradine), and Ed and Clell Miller (Dennis Randy Quaid) begin a career of banditry in post-Civil War Missouri, robbing banks, stagecoaches and trains. Viewed as folk heroes by the locals, their exploits bring them fame and the attention of the Pinkerton Detective Agency. After a series of shootouts and murders with the Pinkerton posse, the James gang scatters, reuniting to knock off a huge bank in Northfield, Minnesota. The robbery is badly botched; the James boys leave the Youngers behind, and return to Missouri, only to find themselves in the crosshairs of the treacherous Ford brothers (Christopher and Nicholas Guest).
Bluntly, The Long Riders is a poor piece of storytelling. Hill moves awkwardly from one set-piece to another, with all-too-brief interludes in between. Key plot points are poorly set up: the Fords get two blink-and-you'll-miss-'em scenes early on, then disappear until the end, when they betray Jesse for no reason. The gang scatters after a Pinkerton raid, then reunites (with two new, heretofore unknown members) just minutes later. When the James and Younger brothers start sniping at each other before Northfield, we wonder where this tension comes from as they've gotten along just fine up till now.
The screenplay (in which the Keach Brothers had a hand) is the primary culprit. It's pure exposition, moving from one scene to the next without drive or motivation, moving as fast as possible, doing little to develop its characters or provide an underlying story. The film is too brisk-paced to be boring but neither is it very compelling. Many scenes work on their own merits, but bereft of real context they don't amount to a whole lot.
Hill paints his outlaw-protagonists as heroes, a conceit that has worked in many other Westerns, but the script does little to enamor us to them. The gimmick of casting acting brothers as outlaw brothers is a good one, but it doesn't amount to much since all of the characters except Cole are one-note ciphers. Hill doesn't demonize the Pinkertons, but neither does he explore why the outlaws became criminals, why they were so popular, and why we should root for them. A late scene where a nosy reporter (Felice Orlandi) interviews the Youngers is too little, too late, and doesn't add anything.
In the action department, Hill definitely delivers the goods. Hill attempts to one-up Peckinpah with his bloody slow-motion shootouts, and nearly succeeds. The film's highlight is the botched Northfield robbery, a near-ten minute sequence that rivals The Wild Bunch's big shootouts for poetic barbarism. Hill's use of slow-motion, quick-editing and incredible sound - the speed fit to the images - is remarkable, and the effect is both hypnotic and horrifying. Handsome photography by Ric Waite, and a wonderful Ry Cooder score, make the movie look and sound really good.
Of the cast, David Carradine (Kill Bill) comes off best; he makes Cole a lively and interesting character despite the script's limitations. Stacey Keach is alright but brother James is a blank slate in the nominal lead role. Pamela Reed shines as Cole's feisty gal pal; James Whitmore Jr. and James Remar have nice supporting roles, and Harry Carey Jr. (The Searchers) pops up in a cameo.
The Long Riders is a disappointment, especially considering the talent involved. If Hill had put half the effort into storytelling that he had into the shootouts, this is could have been a great film. As it is, it's a mediocre Western with little to offer besides some neat action scenes.
http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2010/08/long-riders.html (http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2010/08/long-riders.html)
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It is a delusional anti-Western, that's why it's (seemingly) hard to understand why do the outlaws still have romantic elements implemented in them, while their exploits are shown without any trumpets whatsoever. An intentional dichotomy. The story falls in between this, I wasn't paying much attention so you may have some point, but it is what it is: more concerned with the folklore itself than blending with the rest.
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Blu-ray announced for June 7th.
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Improves on another view, and very good, but there's something keeping it from being great. Cooder's score was good, but something more along the lines of the Southern Comfort score would have worked better -- and the movie probably would have been better if the script didn't focus on so many events in the James-Younger gang's history. It should have focused on the good old days or the bitter end. But still, this would have to be the best Jesse James movie (and the best western of the 80's) since I find the 2007 James movie to be so up its ass, though it has some undeniably strong moments. B+
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... the movie probably would have been better if the script didn't focus on so many events in the James-Younger gang's history. It should have focused on the good old days or the bitter end.
Maybe. What I tend to remember about the film is the great faux-Peckinpah sequences. I would have liked more of those.
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Maybe. What I tend to remember about the film is the great faux-Peckinpah sequences. I would have liked more of those.
I can't argue with more Peckinpah inspired violence. Extreme Prejudice is the best example of how well Hill can channel Peckinpah.
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Huh, I don't think I've seen that one. I'll check it out.
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Long Riders is a total second hand western. Dancing like Ford, shooting like Peckinpah (both overdone) and the James gang portrait is somewhere in the middle between the disillusions of Kaufman's The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid and the classical approach of Jesse James (Henry King, 1939). And Peckinpah's twilight western motives are also nor very inspired laid over the story.
I like this one less then in former times for the very corny macho dialogues and an partly odd narrative. Actually a problem in most movies by Hill. Still 7/10 for individual enjoyable moments.
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Coming after a couple of masterpieces like The Driver and The Warriors, I was disappointed with The Long Riders. It was a far cry from Peckinpah.