Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Once Upon A Time In The West => Topic started by: Kurugen on October 23, 2006, 04:17:01 PM

Title: The Ending
Post by: Kurugen on October 23, 2006, 04:17:01 PM
Allright i dont know if this has been discussed but remember at the end when we see Harmonicas brother then it cuts to 3 or 4 peoples faces. Do you guys think those faces are the ones that Harmonica metioned earlier? Like Dave Jenkins and so on.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Silenzio on October 23, 2006, 04:25:02 PM
That's a good theory. I mean, Frank looks like he's killed a lot of people in his ripe age. It doesn't seem like he would so prominently remember the names of all the people he killed, but if they were members of his gang, and he was particularly close to them, it would explain the shocked look on his face when Harmonica says "Dave Jenkins" and "Calder Benson."
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: marmota-b on October 24, 2006, 04:54:54 AM
Good idea!
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Poggle on October 24, 2006, 02:43:36 PM
Isn't one of them Benito Steffanelli though?
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: The Firecracker on October 24, 2006, 04:05:05 PM
Isn't one of them Benito Steffanelli though?


No. Steffanelli is part of Frank's new gang.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Groggy on October 25, 2006, 12:42:51 PM
I've heard that theory, but I don't buy it.  They're just some dudes. . .
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: dave jenkins on October 25, 2006, 01:14:13 PM
Let's put it this way: there is no reason to suppose that the Monument Valley gang consists of Dave Jenkins, Calder Benson, et. al. There is nothing to prevent that understanding, however.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Aguirre on October 25, 2006, 09:27:09 PM
Besides Dave Jenkins and the other guy being in that same gang that killed Harmonica's brother, how else would he know the other people Frank has killed?

Actually. that gives his character a more mystical feeling.
I'm gonna go with that it's not the same guys. Either way, it's pretty trivial.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Kurugen on October 25, 2006, 09:37:51 PM
when you think about it depends on how you see Harmonica.Personally i think hes the avenging angel not only for his brother but for everyone else Frank killed.But thats just me.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: ellisc on October 26, 2006, 12:17:01 PM
Nope.  Those bums were just members of Frank's gang when Frank was just starting out.  I'm sure Frank had several iterations of gang members.

Dave Jenkins and the other names were murdered by Frank along the way as Frank's ambitions and stature grew.  Harmonica is actually a stalker, if you think about it.  Watching and studying Frank throughout the years, keeping up with his kills, rapes, thefts, etc.  Nothing mystical, just getting his revenge at the end.  Snubbing an evil man out of this world is Harmonica's mission.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Kurugen on October 26, 2006, 09:25:17 PM
Nope.  Those bums were just members of Frank's gang when Frank was just starting out.  I'm sure Frank had several iterations of gang members.

Dave Jenkins and the other names were murdered by Frank along the way as Frank's ambitions and stature grew.  Harmonica is actually a stalker, if you think about it.  Watching and studying Frank throughout the years, keeping up with his kills, rapes, thefts, etc.  Nothing mystical, just getting his revenge at the end.  Snubbing an evil man out of this world is Harmonica's mission.

So do you think thats hes a mortal?
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: cigar joe on October 27, 2006, 03:17:25 AM
The way he pops up after shot at the Cattle Corner Station is supernatural.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: dave jenkins on October 27, 2006, 02:57:43 PM
Or merely a genre convention.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Kurugen on October 27, 2006, 06:52:02 PM
Or merely a genre convention.

Or how about when Jills at the McBain house and hears Harmonica playing his harmonica and then a match is struck and jill shoots him almost point blank with a 2 gauge shotgun(was it?) and then the match falls but we still hear Harmonica playing his harmonica.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Tim on October 28, 2006, 06:28:12 AM
Quote
Besides Dave Jenkins and the other guy being in that same gang that killed Harmonica's brother, how else would he know the other people Frank has killed?

  I always assumed Harmonica has been following Frank around all these years so he would know what's he been up to, including men he has killed.  If Harmonica's in a town and finds out about a murder that sounds similar to how Frank handles things, he could piece everything together......Frank killed another one.

  However, I do put some merit in the Harmonica supernatural possibilities.  As an Angel of Death, he'd know all those names.  And cigar's right, the way he pops up after being shot at Cattle Corner is very supernatural. 
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Groggy on October 28, 2006, 06:30:01 AM
The way he pops up after shot at the Cattle Corner Station is supernatural.

"Pops up"?  He staggers to his feet and has to put his arm in a sling.  It's not like he gets shot and then just springs to his feet.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Tim on October 28, 2006, 06:34:03 AM
  Ok, wrong choice of words.  But the way the scene develops with the camera focusing on his eyes and the way Harmonica looks around.  Granted, he'd probably be somewhat confused after being shot and knocked out, but for me there's always been a very surreal feel to that scene.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: The Peacemaker on October 28, 2006, 09:43:43 AM
Plus, the way Harmonica just slides into every scene ( almost out of thin air ) is very supernatural. He has a very unearthly presence in the film, almost as if he had control over his surrounding environment and the outcome of events.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: archangel on October 28, 2006, 08:17:57 PM
kurugan, good point. maybe he held the match at arms length.
or  he could have lit it and stuck on a tree branch and the buckshot made it fall.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Kurugen on October 30, 2006, 05:06:32 PM
kurugan, good point. maybe he held the match at arms length.
or  he could have lit it and stuck on a tree branch and the buckshot made it fall.

Well theres 3 things that i have to disagree on.

1.its KurugEn no a   ;D

2.There is no way that he held it arms legth because she would have probably shot his hands off

3.There is no tree in the middle of the little area that he was standing
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: ellisc on November 03, 2006, 01:45:10 PM
Regarding the match, it's very simple.

Jill was a bad shot.  Harmonica dropped the lit match after she shot and walked away.  No harm done.  No one hit.  No mystery.  No ghost.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Groggy on November 03, 2006, 04:50:21 PM
I like the idea advanced that it was one of Frank's men, and Harmonica warned her before anything could happen.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Kurugen on November 03, 2006, 11:18:41 PM
Regarding the match, it's very simple.

Jill was a bad shot.  Harmonica dropped the lit match after she shot and walked away.  No harm done.  No one hit.  No mystery.  No ghost.

You dont really have to be a great shot when it comes to a shotgun.If you watch the scene it really looks like she hit where the match was lit.Also who said he was a ghost?  ???
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: The Peacemaker on November 04, 2006, 02:07:13 PM
You dont really have to be a great shot when it comes to a shotgun.

It depends on the shotgun bullet. Some are buckshot ( small bullets that spread out when fired ), some are just a very large caliber bullet.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: cigar joe on November 04, 2006, 03:33:15 PM
It depends on the shotgun bullet. Some are buckshot ( small bullets that spread out when fired ), some are just a very large caliber bullet.

Shot, can run from very small bird shot (about the size of sesame seeds), to 00 buckshot, the large caliber bullet that Peacmaker mentioned is called a slug.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Groggy on November 04, 2006, 04:00:31 PM
McBain was hunting turkeys with the shotgun earlier in the film.  Draw your own conclusions from that. . .  ::)
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: The Peacemaker on November 04, 2006, 04:02:45 PM
McBain was hunting turkeys with the shotgun earlier in the film.  Draw your own conclusions from that. . .  ::)

He could've been a very excellent marksmen.  :P
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: cigar joe on November 04, 2006, 04:25:44 PM
Turkeys no, I think it was pheasants, then it would have been #6 shot.  8)
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: dave jenkins on November 05, 2006, 03:40:21 PM
Are you likely to kill a man with that, CJ, if you were of a mind to?
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: cigar joe on November 05, 2006, 04:01:52 PM
Quote
Are you likely to kill a man with that, CJ, if you were of a mind to?


Only at very close range and then it would have be in the face.

#000 BUCK .360" dia. - The largest of all buckshot sizes, this is meant for deer and elk.
#00 BUCK .330" dia. - (The famous "double ought buck" one may hear). Deer sized game.
#0 BUCK .320" dia. - Close large game load; self defense load.
#1 BUCK .300" dia. - Close large game load; self defense load.
#2 BUCK .270" dia. - Feral dog, fox, coyote.
#3 BUCK .250" dia. - Feral dog, fox, coyote.
#4 BUCK .240" dia. - Feral dog, fox, coyote.

#2 .150 dia. - Goose.
#4 .130 dia. - Goose.
#5 .120 dia. - Ducks, pheasants.
#6 .110 dia. - Ducks, crows, rabbits.
#7 .100 dia. - Not readily available; dove, partridge, rabbits.
#7 1/2 .095 dia. - Trap Shooting, dove, chukar, pigeon.
#8 .090 dia. - Quail, pigeon, dove.
#8.5 .085 dia. - Quail
#9 .080 dia. - Quail, skeet shooting, starlings and blackbirds.
#10 .070 dia. - Small pest removal, such as snakes.
#11 .060 dia. - Small pest removal, such as rats.
#12 .050 dia. - Known as "dust" or rat shot in the industry, this is meant for small pest removal. Rats.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: dave jenkins on November 05, 2006, 11:22:33 PM
Then, Jill can't possibly kill Harmonica when she fires at him (whether she realizes this or not is another question).
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: cigar joe on November 06, 2006, 03:28:09 PM
correctamundo!
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: dave jenkins on November 06, 2006, 03:40:11 PM
That's a good thing to know. Thanks, CJ, you are invaluable.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Groggy on November 08, 2006, 02:14:01 PM
Maybe Jill only fired blanks at him?  :-\
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: dave jenkins on November 09, 2006, 05:20:33 PM
McBain kept blanks at his home? Whatever for? In case the film crew didn't have enough of their own?
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: The Firecracker on November 10, 2006, 03:51:37 PM
This guy carries blanks with him all the time...

(http://spaghettiwesterns.1g.fi/grand/grand_duel_01.jpg


)


at least in this movie...


(http://spaghettiwesterns.1g.fi/dvd/The_Grand_Duel_DVD_by_Sandro.jpg



)
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: dave jenkins on November 11, 2006, 09:08:15 AM
Very nice images. Not sure I get your point, though. Are you equating Clayton with McBain?
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: The Firecracker on November 11, 2006, 04:49:38 PM
Very nice images. Not sure I get your point, though. Are you equating Clayton with McBain?

ewwww....the dvd image is far to big, I have got to get  rid of it.

No my point was just to reference a character that actually uses blanks (the reason is never explained) in an sw.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Silenzio on November 11, 2006, 07:15:41 PM
ewwww....the dvd image is far to big, I have got to get  rid of it.

No my point was just to reference a character that actually uses blanks (the reason is never explained) in an sw.

I'm guessing it  was also a good opportunity to advertise one of your favorite SWs.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on December 04, 2006, 04:34:25 PM
  I always assumed Harmonica has been following Frank around all these years so he would know what's he been up to, including men he has killed.  If Harmonica's in a town and finds out about a murder that sounds similar to how Frank handles things, he could piece everything together......Frank killed another one.

This is exactly what I think. Harmonica has been keeping tabs on Frank for years, no other way to describe it in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Ending
Post by: The Firecracker on December 04, 2006, 04:55:33 PM
I'm guessing it  was also a good opportunity to advertise one of your favorite SWs.

JYES!