Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Once Upon A Time In The West => Topic started by: General Sibley on November 23, 2003, 04:25:09 AM

Title: Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on November 23, 2003, 04:25:09 AM
Been enjoying the DVD this weekend, awesome!  I saw OUATITW widescreen at a rerelease six or seven years ago, which was amazing.  This DVD is beautiful, really does justice to the movie. Would love to see the rest of his films treated with the same attention to detail.

But one thing that strikes me is, just my opinion mind you - but I think Jason Robards is miscast as Cheyenne.   :o

Sergio's casting choices are usually right on perfect, but Robards just isn't very convincing in a western.  If Harmonica or Frank or Tuco or Angel Eyes would walk into a room, I would soil my trousers just at the sight of them.  But Robards?   C'mon, tell me you don't think you could kick his "midtown sitting in a booth at Elaine's" behind?  I'd grab him by those stupid whiskers and toss his martini in his face.

He doesn't convey nearly enough menace IMHO.  This guy is supposed to be the leader of a vicious group of bandits?  He comes across as the leader of a Chelsea glee club.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Groggy on November 23, 2003, 05:18:51 AM
Been enjoying the DVD this weekend, awesome!  I saw OUATITW widescreen at a rerelease six or seven years ago, which was amazing.  This DVD is beautiful, really does justice to the movie. Would love to see the rest of his films treated with the same attention to detail.

But one thing that strikes me is, just my opinion mind you - but I think Jason Robards is miscast as Cheyenne.   :o

Sergio's casting choices are usually right on perfect, but Robards just isn't very convincing in a western.  If Harmonica or Frank or Tuco or Angel Eyes would walk into a room, I would soil my trousers just at the sight of them.  But Robards?   C'mon, tell me you don't think you could kick his "midtown sitting in a booth at Elaine's" behind?  I'd grab him by those stupid whiskers and toss his martini in his face.

He doesn't convey nearly enough menace IMHO.  This guy is supposed to be the leader of a vicious group of bandits?  He comes across as the leader of a Chelsea glee club.

I don't know if you were supposed to be afraid of Cheyenne.  Anyways, I thought Robards did an excellent job myself.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: The Smoker on November 23, 2003, 10:11:17 AM
He has a doomed/melancholy quality about him as a charactor, Hes a man with a bad past whos tired of running, wants to be left alone.
The 3 charactors (Morton/Cheyenne & Frank) know they will not survive at the end of this movie, just Cheyenne has given in before its started.

But hes still a dangerous man if cornered.  ;)
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: DjArcadian on November 23, 2003, 04:36:25 PM
I thought his casting was inspired. He certainly added an aspect to the film that was more real. I've been a fan of his since seeing this film. He was incredible in Magnolia as well and was certainly an actor that should have been featured more in the movies he was in.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on November 24, 2003, 07:20:19 AM
I'm not saying he's a bad actor, I just think he was miscast as Cheyenne.  He's too much 20th century, he just brings this modern sensibility, his acting is too mannered.  I thought he was great as Al Capone in "St. Valentine's Day Massacre", so it's not that he can't play a bad guy well.  I just don't find him very convincing as a western desperado.

I think he would have been a much better choice to play Morton - the modern age bad guy infecting the new world with a new smallpox, a different kind of ruthlessness and violence.  

For me, the scenes with Cheyenne are nowhere near as powerful as the scenes without him.  Compare the tension when Frank and Harmonica share the frame to when Cheyenne and Harmonica are on screen.  

Take the first scene where they meet in the trading post.  Is it anywhere near as intense as the Frank scenes?   Or, God forbid, the opening showdown at Cattle Corner?  Even Morricone's score soaring and the great shot with the lantern being shoved down to reveal Harmonica doesn't lift that scene to the magnificence and grandeur of the other confrontations.

Tell me that scene isn't flatter than the others?  It's Robards.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Frank on November 24, 2003, 09:51:25 AM
I'll go so far to say that Robards is a bad actor, or at least a flat  actor.   I had to see the 1971 Julius Caesar for High School English and I'm not sure there ever has been a more uninspired performance than Robards as Brutus.

I actually don't think he is too bad in OUTW, Leone obviously wanted that type.  You couldn't have cast anybody too big in the role since you didn't want to distract attention from Fonda.  No one on the Robards level of fame in 1969 comes immediately to mind.  How about Gig Young?  He did They Shoot Horses Don't They at about that time and he might have been a little more antimated than the sleep walking Jason.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on November 24, 2003, 12:04:38 PM
Imagine how Eli Wallach would have made those scenes crackle?  Compare Tuco bursting through the window in first scene of GBU to Robards bursting through the door of the trading post. But you couldn't use Tuco again for obvious reasons.

It's a showy role in the right hands.  Leone made long careers for a lot of his actors, Robards dropped the ball.  Probably too hungover.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: KERMIT on November 24, 2003, 01:40:58 PM
robards very effective as capone in st. valentines day massacre, especially when he whipped out the baseball bat.  
a lot of tippling going on w/ robards an film crew who found this american actor the easyiest to get along w/ .



Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on November 24, 2003, 02:51:46 PM
Kermit, you think he would've made General?
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Groggy on November 27, 2003, 07:54:50 PM
I'll go so far to say that Robards is a bad actor, or at least a flat  actor.   I had to see the 1971 Julius Caesar for High School English and I'm not sure there ever has been a more uninspired performance than Robards as Brutus.

I actually don't think he is too bad in OUTW, Leone obviously wanted that type.  You couldn't have cast anybody too big in the role since you didn't want to distract attention from Fonda.  No one on the Robards level of fame in 1969 comes immediately to mind.  How about Gig Young?  He did They Shoot Horses Don't They at about that time and he might have been a little more antimated than the sleep walking Jason.

Needless to say I wholeheartedly disagree.  Robards was fantastic in "The St. Valentine's Day Massacre", "Tora Tora Tora", and especially "All the President's Men" (which I just finished watching about ten minutes ago, LOL).
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: KERMIT on December 01, 2003, 02:23:08 AM
about 1/2 way through seeing clint for the firt time in a rawhide episode leone stood up and walked out. " this man w/ the vacant look on his face, in an unwatchable film about cows".
 
robards performance of an outlaw knowing his number is up a good choice made by leone. general, who else would have been better ?


Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Sackett on December 01, 2003, 10:35:59 AM
I think Robards was a fine actor.  He came across as very dangerous, especially in the bar scene where he buffaloes the washing dude.  Yes, he looks tired, but he still has menace.  If Frank were and animal he would be a rattlesnake.  If Cheyenne were an animal, he would be a badger or even a wolverine.  You just don't mess with them.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Groggy on December 01, 2003, 04:02:50 PM
I think Robards was a fine actor.  He came across as very dangerous, especially in the bar scene where he buffaloes the washing dude.  Yes, he looks tired, but he still has menace.  If Frank were and animal he would be a rattlesnake.  If Cheyenne were an animal, he would be a badger or even a wolverine.  You just don't mess with them.

Yeah, he was more of a character actor than a real star.

But Cheyenne was definitely dangerous.  Just because he had a nice personality doesn't mean that he can't be a gunfighter.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: ellisc on December 03, 2003, 09:40:09 AM
Been enjoying the DVD this weekend, awesome!  I saw OUATITW widescreen at a rerelease six or seven years ago, which was amazing.  This DVD is beautiful, really does justice to the movie. Would love to see the rest of his films treated with the same attention to detail.

But one thing that strikes me is, just my opinion mind you - but I think Jason Robards is miscast as Cheyenne.   :o

Sergio's casting choices are usually right on perfect, but

I totally agree and have always thought the same myself.  To me, Robard's just some old man who looks like he should be working in a horse stable.  But maybe Leone meant it that way.  After all, listen to Cheyenne's music.  Not as dark as Harmonica's or Frank's.

I would have preferred a more menancing Cheyenne.  I think the scene where he's introduced: enters the swinging doors and slowly looks up, eyes shifting, is silly.  The way he drops his shoulders and raises his head looks fake.

That said, however, could the movie have handled three hardened personalities?  Was Cheyenne there to lighten it up in places?  
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: James C Gutierrez on December 05, 2003, 12:19:30 PM

That said, however, could the movie have handled three hardened personalities?  Was Cheyenne there to lighten it up in places?  

That's right. Consider: Aside from some tricked up shooting on the side of a train which doesn't count in my opinion, we don't see Cheyenne fire a gun conventionally even once! (am I remembering right?)

We just hear one of his confrontations and he Enters...preceded by his reputation.

That's it in the violence department for Robards (I suspect we don't see him taking on the Choo Choo Morton gang because Robards was simply not a robust and credible enough pistolero to make it worth Leone's while). And there's even less riding for him  than Van Cleef in the Dollars Films.

He's all character and connecting tissue between the other characters. He's the only truly three dimensional, human person in the movie after Brett McB's demise. Notice that he takes on a potential resemblance to McBain in widow Cardinale's eyes. She can picture him as the same irascible,. kindly, strong willed, slightly clownish type of protector and provider. A good man. Something you can't say about Harmonica and Frank, surely.

Robards is the one observing, puzzling out, explaining and philosophizing, and fanning some warmth into rather chilly and self-sufficient Harmonica and Jill (like breath on that Coffee campfire) through his encounters with them.

He's the battered soul of the west, and the film.

I can not imagine Tuco Wallach in this part, nor do I want to: "Reemember my friend, if you are going to play the false notes to Cheyenne Gutierrez you had better play them reely FALSE!" I love  Wallach, but he's not right here. He's too much the bantam weight, fidgety, chomping at the bit, hopping about.

Cheyenne has to be slow, slow, slow: the life sighing out of the legends, and soulful, self-deprecating, foolishly wise. Robards has the eyes and the tempo for that and the beautiful voice for some of the best written speeches in any western ever.Only he could live and die that way on screen.

Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on December 06, 2003, 05:54:32 AM
These are all good points, especially Cheyenne needing to be "slow,slow,slow".   The character is critical to tying things together, and that's why I don't like Robards in the part.

He's supposed to be this brutal desprerado coming to the end of the line, and looking to get out of the business and settle down.  But again, just my opinion, I never find anything in Robard's performance to convince me that he's some superbadman.  

Kermit asked about who could be better?  Was just kidding about Wallach, he'd be way over the top and you don't want anyone chewing the scenery in this role.  But Karl Malden comes to mind - very versatile, quiet and understated, slow if you will.  And I'm sure he could play a believable killer who would be nasty enough to also keep a gang of likewise similar killers under control.

This character has to be a leader of a pack of killer wolves - someone who is always being challenged by the young dogs and is mean enough to instill fear in them.  Is Robards convincing as the alpha dog?  IMO he's not.   He might have been more believable as a brooding loner like Harmonica, but he's not a leader who can keep the subordinates in line with fear like Frank.

I'd take him on in a second, and this character should be someone that you would never ever want to challenge.  I don't care if he has to reveal a softer side or not, he still needs to put the fear of God into you.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: KERMIT on December 06, 2003, 08:58:44 AM
karl good but the director chose robards.
the beauty of leone is the his method.
gonzo kinda guy.  ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: cheem_2000 on December 06, 2003, 09:59:37 AM
Jason Robard's character is absolutely brilliant! I think he showed a versatility; to be able to be mean and thoughtful. The bar room scene is very complex in terms of everyones different emotions. Jill is scared then confused of Cheyenne, Harmonica is cool but looking for information and Cheyenne himself is conveying an appreciation of Jill albeit slightly crude. His attitude towards Harmonica is provoking, contemptous and then later he shows admiration for him. My point is Jason Robards was able to show all those different emotions to those different actors perfectly.
Once upon a Time |in the West is supposed to show the death of the stereotypical characters in the west so it is obvious that the outlaw character must be an actor like Jason Robards- a liile mean but not completely, He is at 'the end of the line' as Frank so aptly put it to Harmonica.


I totally agree and have always thought the same myself.  To me, Robard's just some old man who looks like he should be working in a horse stable.  But maybe Leone meant it that way.  After all, listen to Cheyenne's music.  Not as dark as Harmonica's or Frank's.

I would have preferred a more menancing Cheyenne.  I think the scene where he's introduced: enters the swinging doors and slowly looks up, eyes shifting, is silly.  The way he drops his shoulders and raises his head looks fake.

That said, however, could the movie have handled three hardened personalities?  Was Cheyenne there to lighten it up in places?  
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on December 06, 2003, 01:09:54 PM
I just caught a glimpe of "Cincinnati Kid" last night, which is what reminded me of what a fine character actor Karl Malden was.   He was great as the cuckold "Shooter", but then he could also play a tough-as-nails priest in "On the Waterfront".  You'd never imagine him getting the girl, which is why he would have been good as the guy who pines after Jill but never wins her heart.

He played up against some very charismatic leading men (Brando, McQueen) and still held his own without having to emote or hunch his shoulders or glue on some silly whiskers to convey some weight and dignity and power on the screen.  Plus he had enough of a sense of humor that he could have added some of the lightness that was needed for the role.

Sorry for straying a little, but I still think Robards sucked as Cheyenne  ;)
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on December 06, 2003, 01:18:42 PM
Oh, and another strike against Robards -

Could you make any argument that Eastwood, Wallach and Van Cleef didn't totally nail their parts in GBU?

Woods & DeNiro in OUTIA?

Or Fonda & Bronson in OUTITW?

Seems to be 50/50 re Robards in this thread, any of the above wouldn't never be questioned.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: The Smoker on December 06, 2003, 02:51:57 PM
Actually. Ive never got around Lee Van Cleef as Angel Eyes, Apart from the particular nasty opening....
Colonel Mortimer is too ingrained in my head. I find it very hard to watch sometimes. This is more of a personal opinion thou really.  :-\

Not sayin he isn't a nasty piece of work in GBU.

Who else could you suggest for the Cheyenne part?
I keep coming up with similiar actor performances in my head.
Lee Marvin, but he ain't gonna make a convining half breed.  :-\
Anthony Quinn would be too overblown.. but mexican.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on December 07, 2003, 03:58:11 AM
That's right, I completely forgot that the Cheyenne character is supposed to be a half-breed.  Robards is so utterly convincing on that account too.  Half of what, Bronx & Brooklyn?   Robard's Cheyenne is as believable as Tony Curtis doing Shakespeare, "What light on yonda window breaks".

And hey, hey, hey - no cracking on Angel Eyes!  He's the best Grim Reaper of all time, "Make sure they get the good treatment" - gulp.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Nobody on December 07, 2003, 06:09:09 AM
Cheyenne isn't excactly the villain of the piece, hence he doesn't have to be as menacing as Frank. I think Robards does a wonderful job, and he is utterly convincing as an ageing bandit wanting to leave his past behind him.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: cigar joe on December 07, 2003, 09:14:22 AM
Richard Boone might have been able to do a good job of playing Cheyene, if we are not looking for someone that looks more Mexican
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Groggy on December 07, 2003, 03:03:50 PM
Oh, and another strike against Robards -

Could you make any argument that Eastwood, Wallach and Van Cleef didn't totally nail their parts in GBU?

Woods & DeNiro in OUTIA?

Or Fonda & Bronson in OUTITW?

Seems to be 50/50 re Robards in this thread, any of the above wouldn't never be questioned.

Not that I would make any such suggestions, but I know of a lot of people who criticize Fonda and Bronson.  (which p***es me off) And Van Cleef as well.  I even know of Leone fans who dislike OUATITW.  

Personally, I think you should get off Robards' case.  He did fine.

But anyway, Karl Malden would've done a great job . . . ;)
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: KERMIT on December 08, 2003, 01:59:46 AM
Richard Boone might have been able to do a good job of playing Cheyene, if we are not looking for someone that looks more Mexican
hec ramsey meets cheyene.
like clint, boone got his start on american t.v. westerns.
i wonder what richard boone,s schedule was back then.
hombre was being filmed ?
boone could get pretty sadistic w/out a word said.
i can hear richard boone now after gunning down someone he really wanted to avoid. " this is the part i hate the most...groan".  ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on December 08, 2003, 07:58:27 AM
Someone found fault with Angel Eyes?   :o Wow, tough crowd.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Sackett on December 08, 2003, 08:00:08 AM
Boone's reply in Hombre. "Well now, I wonder what hell is going to look like."
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Groggy on December 09, 2003, 05:26:44 PM
Someone found fault with Angel Eyes?   :o Wow, tough crowd.

There's just no pleasing some people, General.  Here's a comment I came across on the IMDb:
Quote
deus12ex
Leeds England

Date: 24 September 2003
Summary: Great Score - shame about the film.

3 men out west seek hidden loot in the civil war.

The Good the Bad and the Ugly starts brilliantly, with each of the three in question shown in their own opening scenario. Eastwood is quickly established as the 'Good', Van Cleef the 'Bad' and Eli Wallach as the 'ugly'. Though generally there's no difference in their characters, as they all steal, kill and betray. Blondie (Eastwood) and the ugly repeatedly steal from the law by collecting ransom demands for the latter, not stopping at one to forgo the increasing value on his head. Van Cleef murders anyone for money. There a rather spirited bunch. From their on the experience becomes tedious and very slow. There are some great set-pieces including a battle on a bridge involving hundreds of extras, and the standoff at the end is excellently done, with extreme close-ups that heighten the tension. Once again the Italian scenery is efficiently, if excessively used. It's just a shame that it's alloyed by Wallach's hamming and a ten minute scene of Eastwood crossing the desert - sound exciting ?. The film is badly dubbed but even this doesn't mar the enjoyment as much as Ugly's cringe worthy sentimental scene with his brother, superfluous ? -not entirely. It does lead to some 'Good-Ugly' relationship humour which is where most of the film gets it's laughs. To be fair, none of the humour seems out of place with all the explosions and blood as the film doesn't take itself entirely seriously (Sergio Leone seems to have been satisfied with the over-the-top performances by virtually every character except Eastwood and Van Cleef). But this doesn't matter - because the score is one of the best for any western ever.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Il Buono on December 10, 2003, 02:12:58 AM
I think Robards did a very good job in OUTIW, he brings much humanity to the film.  I dare even say he's the only character we care about.  We're intruiged by Harmonica, we like to see beautiful Cardinale and her Italian temper, but Cheyenne is the one we care about.  I think he's essential to the film.  Actually you couldn't take anybody away from the script, because al the characters seem in perfect balance.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: klaatu on December 13, 2003, 03:41:41 AM
I think Robards did a very good job in OUTIW, he brings much humanity to the film.  I dare even say he's the only character we care about.  We're intruiged by Harmonica, we like to see beautiful Cardinale and her Italian temper, but Cheyenne is the one we care about.  I think he's essential to the film.  Actually you couldn't take anybody away from the script, because al the characters seem in perfect balance.
Buono You are right on the money!  
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: KERMIT on December 15, 2003, 12:54:17 AM
Buono You are right on the money!  
bruno i got to go along w/ klaatu. the balance is so delicate i woun't give robards part a second thought.
cheyenne a crusty but lovable outlaw. we care about his situation. robards, again.
then you have the completed harmonica/frank thing going.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Walter on December 15, 2003, 08:01:38 AM
I think Robards did a very good job in OUTIW, he brings much humanity to the film.  I dare even say he's the only character we care about.  We're intruiged by Harmonica, we like to see beautiful Cardinale and her Italian temper, but Cheyenne is the one we care about.  I think he's essential to the film.  Actually you couldn't take anybody away from the script, because al the characters seem in perfect balance.

You are very right. But it is not only the balance; it is important to give the viewer a chance to invest emotions into the characters. If you don't care about the character, you really don't care about who wins.
Harmonica is too cold, Jill is too cynical - the "alliance" needed a character that we could like and love and identify with. And because we like Cheyenne, we also cheer for his friends.  

So sly Leone and Bertolucci made us care for the outlaw killer, instead of the justice seeking gunman or the lonely widow. Yet another of the movies many wonderful twists.

Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: The Smoker on December 15, 2003, 01:57:57 PM
That's right, I completely forgot that the Cheyenne character is supposed to be a half-breed.  Robards is so utterly convincing on that account too.  Half of what, Bronx & Brooklyn?   Robard's Cheyenne is as believable as Tony Curtis doing Shakespeare, "What light on yonda window breaks".

Very good  ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: KERMIT on December 15, 2003, 03:55:32 PM
Very good  ;D
tony curtis. lol can you imagine him as frank ?   ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: klaatu on December 15, 2003, 04:27:37 PM
tony curtis. lol can you imagine him as frank ?   ;D

I think Alain Delon as Frank would have been nice.  ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: KERMIT on December 15, 2003, 07:25:31 PM
I think Alain Delon as Frank would have been nice.
needless to say klaatu, tony curtis a joke gone bad.  :-[
yes, alain delon as frank. you're the first to bring up his name. and many names were brought up over @ groggy's. 92 replys. long thread. ck it out under YOUR CHOICE FOR A REMAKE.
jack lemon  as frank ?    ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: klaatu on December 15, 2003, 08:07:33 PM
needless to say klaatu, tony curtis a joke gone bad.  :-[
yes, alain delon as frank. you're the first to bring up his name. and many names were brought up over @ groggy's. 92 replys. long thread. ck it out under YOUR CHOICE FOR A REMAKE.
jack lemon  as frank ?      ;D

KERMIT I actually thought that TC wasn't bad idea either. Young Jack Lemon could have been work too :D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: KERMIT on December 16, 2003, 02:01:15 AM
KERMIT I actually thought that TC wasn't bad idea either. Young Jack Lemon could have been work too :D
yes, a young jack lemon. TC has that same good guy image fonda had. somehow i cn't picture TC shooting lil timmy.  ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on December 16, 2003, 07:52:39 AM
I was thinking of fish out of water when Tony Curtis came to mind - and he was better in "The Vikings" than a certain actor in a certain role whom we'll refrain from piling onto anymore.  And Ernest Borgnine totally rocked in the role of a lifetime as Ragnar.  "ODIN!"  ;D

He was pretty damn good in "Emperor of the North Pole" too.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: KERMIT on December 16, 2003, 10:27:27 AM
I was thinking of fish out of water when Tony Curtis came to mind - and he was better in "The Vikings" than a certain actor in a certain role whom we'll refrain from piling onto anymore.  And Ernest Borgnine totally rocked in the role of a lifetime as Ragnar.  "ODIN!"  ;D

He was pretty damn good in "Emperor of the North Pole" too.
clean forgot about TC being in "the vikings".
borgnine an all time great.   ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Walter on December 16, 2003, 01:07:01 PM
clean forgot about TC being in "the vikings".
borgnine an all time great.   ;D

Help, the threads have crossed! This is turning in to the remake-thread!  :o

(By the way, Alain Delon is and was great, but would be type-cast as Frank, by the way. The shock of the good guy turned bad wouldn't be there.)  
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: KERMIT on December 16, 2003, 03:29:29 PM
Help, the threads have crossed! This is turning in to the remake-thread!  :o

(By the way, Alain Delon is and was great, but would be type-cast as Frank, by the way. The shock of the good guy turned bad wouldn't be there.)  
jerry stiller ?  ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: cigar joe on December 16, 2003, 06:07:09 PM
I thought "Emperor of the North Pole" was a great flick too, though haven't seen it in a long time.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Walter on December 18, 2003, 03:10:03 AM
jerry stiller ?  ;D

Jerry Stiller is a great idea! As Frank or Harmonica? I'd love a shouting, coleric half-mad Harmonica.

Antoher twist for a remake; instead of Harmonica, let's make him into Accordion.  ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Blueberry on December 18, 2003, 04:21:58 AM
Jason Robards is very suited as Cheyenne - have any of you thought of a slight resemblance with the Sergio image on top of this site?The beard, the look in his eyes...?

And.. I think that the remake should feature a sole revenging  angel immigrated from Scotland - Bagpipe  :D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Groggy on December 18, 2003, 12:21:49 PM
  If we're going to be debating the topic of alterante casts, please use the thread already in existances.  (Sorry to sound like a pompous, self-promoting @$$hole, but . . .)

But anyway, one more while we're here: Stephen McHattie as Harmonica.  ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: KERMIT on December 19, 2003, 11:39:02 PM
45 replys ought to cement the late great jason robards as cheyanne.

stephen mchattie a stroke of genius groggy.   ;D
funny how the last one is always the best.
....although half of me settles w/  SM, the other half clutches on to jerry stiller.   ;D

BTW,  al capone, my favorite jason robards portrayal.
from "st. valintine's day massacre".  
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on December 24, 2003, 11:00:55 AM
45 replys ought to cement the late great jason robards as cheyanne.


Well, then who's going to clean out the horse stables?  ;)  Since he did justice to a fine Chicago homeboy in St. Valentines, we'll give him a pass I guess.  I'm feeling charitable today.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Groggy on December 24, 2003, 03:40:15 PM
  I watched my DVD today, and he was excellent.  You isn't gonna make me change my opinion.  (bad grammar deliberate ;))
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Robs on December 29, 2003, 07:55:01 PM
Just to mention it: I think Jason Robards has the most impressing appearance in this movie (after Caudia Cardinale...she's just georgeous and impressing!). But the more I think about this Movie (which I've seen about 40 times or more) every main-actor is so perfectly inscened...I just love this movie. It's a milestone never to be reached again. I mean: whoaa, i just love it! :D Sergio forever!
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: COLONNA on December 30, 2003, 07:30:23 AM
Sorry General but what we know about Cheyenne ?:


 His mother was a prostitute but nobody could say a mexican one or a blonde and his father an unknown customer.
Why not a Yankee with Irish,English,Nordisc  blood, who knows ?

Cheyennes is perhaps his name because his mother was also Indian or only a nickname because he is wild and brave and cruel also ?

So using Jason (who is perfect IMO) as Cheyenne is not a miscasting. Using Rod Steiger as a peon is a TRUE miscasting. Because Segio said to Rod: please try to play a peon.It seems that  Sergio said to Jason: please try to play Cheyenne  

I imagine a young Cheyenne poor ,alone , fighting in the street with  olvidados/desperados mexican kids and building his mixed gang.
Obviously a mex-look gang

OK he uses a mexican saddle but his suits are typically US,  absolutely different than Tuco who is clearly Mexican.

The second question is : Is Cheyenne character useful?

Many people answered that in front of two non-human monsters Franck and Harmonica, Cheyennes plays the human one ,like Tuco in GBU in front of Blondie and Sentenza.  
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Bill San Antonio on April 11, 2004, 03:07:18 AM
I would call Jason Robards' performance good and solid but not extraordinary and maybe that's the problem because "Once upon a time in west" is an extraordinary movie and an extraordinary movie needes extraordinary characters, especially if it is 3 hours long. Only Harmonica on the one hand and Frank on the other hand..., that isn't enough!
Claudia Cardinale does her best, but her performance is only a bit extraordinary because women never had a characterization in westerns like her before. Her part is a new part, not known before but not breathtaking.
In my opinion "Once upon a time in west" needs 1 or 2 extraordinary characters more. So it isn't one of my favourite movies, because it's too long for only 2 interesting main characters.
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on April 12, 2004, 03:19:25 AM
 :o Jason Robards  :o
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Bill San Antonio on April 17, 2004, 05:18:37 AM
:o Jason Robards  :o

What do you mean?  ???
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on April 24, 2004, 02:47:34 AM
Controversial subject, the less said the better  ;)
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: General Sibley on July 21, 2004, 09:01:47 AM
Controversial subject, the less said the better  ;)
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: DJIMBO on July 21, 2004, 09:26:50 AM
im not usually this shallow with regards to women but ill hope ull excuse me when i suggest that the sight of claudia cardinale in that white dress is extraordinary enough, never mind the performance ;D
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Half Soldier on July 21, 2004, 12:38:44 PM
I agree but the intervening years haven't been too kind (sorry Claudia)
Title: Re:Jason Robards
Post by: Vinnie James on July 22, 2004, 06:52:55 AM
Well, I think all the actors are a good refresh to the westerns of leone.I also like Eastwood, Wallach, or Van Cleef, but... they're not the only ones int he world you know?
I think Robards does a great job in the movie.