Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => A Fistful of Dollars => Topic started by: Lac qui Parle on June 05, 2008, 09:54:40 AM

Title: why a cemetery?
Post by: Lac qui Parle on June 05, 2008, 09:54:40 AM
YAY! I’m up to the Dollars. I’m almost all the way around. :)

Okay, here’s my thoughts on FOD.

Why, why, WHY does Joe prop the bodies up in a cemetery of all places? I mean, he could have had the soldiers “sleeping” anywhere: a field, a cavern, a river bed, etc. So why is a cemetery so integral to his plan? It seems a stretch of logic that he would take dead bodies to a cemetery when he wants them to be perceived as alive. Duh. Did they have to drive through town and therefore had to look inconspicuous? Did he want the gunplay to richochet off the tombstombs? I have literally lost sleep over this little plot detail.

Here’s another one.

Was it Joe’s original intention to steal the gold? He punches out the woman and his whole plan for theivery is run amuck, thus the plot spirals in a different direction. It seems like Joe only has noble intentions AFTER he sees/learns something. Which I can see would make that one 1975 ABC intro really, really not makes sense, ha ha.

When Joe says (in regards to peace), “It’s not easy to like something you know nothing about.” Is that a stab at Ramone, or was Joe referring to himself?

Out of all the Dollars, “Joe” is the best. I mean, I know in theory it’s kind of all the same character. But Joe twirls my ponytails. Maybe because he’s the most ... gritty. I’m sure it would never work; he’s a gun toting bad ass, I have a day job and scruples.


Best Scene: Joe wants the men to apologize for upsetting his mule
Worst Scene: again with the cemetary. it doesn’t make any sense!
IMDb Rating: 9/10
SL Rating: 1 or 2/6*

*I can’t decide between GBU and this one. Tough call.
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: Ben Tyreen on June 05, 2008, 11:01:24 AM
Quote
*I can’t decide between GBU and this one. Tough call.

  Watch GBU again then. O0  FOD is good but it's not even close to GBU.
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: dave jenkins on June 05, 2008, 03:42:02 PM
  Watch GBU again then. O0  FOD is good but it's not even close to GBU.
AFOD is a chamber piece, GBU a symphony.

And SL chose a cemetery because cemeteries are cool.
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: Groggy on June 05, 2008, 03:51:04 PM
More like, FOD is Chopsticks while GBU is Beethoven's Fifth or Mozart's Symphony No. 40. :D
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: Lac qui Parle on June 05, 2008, 04:33:43 PM
And SL chose a cemetery because cemeteries are cool.

Are you feeling alright today, Dave? No Shakepeare? No Latin? No obscure symbolism to pull out of hammerspace and blow my mind? Just "cemeteries are cool." ???
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: dave jenkins on June 05, 2008, 04:47:55 PM
I try to chose the appropriate tool for the occasion. I don't need a backhoe to fix a divot.
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: Atlas2112 on June 05, 2008, 04:58:54 PM
yeah, ultimately it all comes down to style, we could come up with loads of pages on things aren't nessicarily logical in the dollars trilogy. Why do they have 10 minute stad-offs when they could just shoot each other dead in could blood? why does eastwood where a pancho when it could have gotten in the way of his gunslinging? why didn't cheyenne die from his gun wounds a lot sooner then he actually did?


The most sufficient and best way to answer all these questions and more is pretty simple: Its just cool.
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: The Firecracker on June 05, 2008, 05:17:59 PM
Out of all the Dollars, “Joe” is the best.


Agreed. That Eastwood incarnation was the best with a gun.
He could shoot down 5 men at once with ease.
You never see the other two do that.
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: Lac qui Parle on June 05, 2008, 05:30:10 PM
The most sufficient and best way to answer all these questions and more is pretty simple: Its just cool.

You guys cannot do this to me. I have tortured myself over the cemetery thing for ages. It has to mean something. It has to.

Here's what's going to happen. We're going to wait. We're going to wait for Cigar Joe to come along and explain the historical significance of a cemetery. Maybe in the old days soldiers slept in cemeteries. Maybe it was common practice. I mean, how do we know it wasn't?

Or titoli. Maybe it was a bad translation. Maybe "go out to a big open spot" sounds like "cemetery" in Italian. Hmm? Did you think about that?

And Dave. Take a few days off. Put your feet up. Have some chicken noodle soup. Then, you can come back and say how a cemetery is actually a reference to a soliloquy in Hamlet.
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: dave jenkins on June 05, 2008, 06:58:46 PM
Bah. A cemetery is a city of the dead. It mirrors the necropolis that San Miguel has become. Happy now?
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: Tuco the ugly on June 05, 2008, 08:34:21 PM
They wanted to die like men, so they went to the cemetery.
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: dave jenkins on June 05, 2008, 10:24:09 PM
Also . . . the visit to the underworld is a convention of epic. Odysseus, Aeneas, Dante, all make a stop in the world of the dead before resuming their respective quests. Joe is not Odysseus, and AFOD is not The Odyssey, but, hey, SL could dream, couldn't he?
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: cigar joe on June 06, 2008, 04:40:47 AM
Isn't it simply a matter of Pipiro the coffin maker using his coffins to transport the bodies with Joe from the river to the cemetery? I mean where else would he take them and not arouse any suspision, he wouldn't be bringing coffins into town. Also maybe the cemetery is the closestlogical spot to the river. 

I'd have to pop in the DVD to refresh my memory.
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: Lac qui Parle on June 06, 2008, 05:57:01 AM
Isn't it simply a matter of Pipiro the coffin maker using his coffins to transport the bodies with Joe from the river to the cemetery? I mean where else would he take them and not arouse any suspision, he wouldn't be bringing coffins into town. Also maybe the cemetery is the closestlogical spot to the river. 

I'd have to pop in the DVD to refresh my memory.

Yes, but he didn't ride with the coffin maker. He rides with the bartender dude. The coffin maker, yes that would make sense. That's what I thought too.
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: Lac qui Parle on June 06, 2008, 05:59:06 AM
Bah. A cemetery is a city of the dead. It mirrors the necropolis that San Miguel has become. Happy now?

You're a good sport, Dave.  ;)
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 06, 2008, 08:51:24 AM
I don't think the bartender dude would have gone along with Joe if he knew that they weren't going to bury the bodies, so maybe Joe's going to the cemetary to get bartender dude to participate, remember his surprise when he finds out their not going to bury the bodies....
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: Lac qui Parle on June 06, 2008, 09:20:49 AM
I don't think the bartender dude would have gone along with Joe if he knew that they weren't going to bury the bodies, so maybe Joe's going to the cemetary to get bartender dude to participate, remember his surprise when he finds out their not going to bury the bodies....

OHHHHHHHHHH. Yes. That's it! You nailed it, Jordan Krug.  O0

And feel free to add "bartender dude" to your vernacular, too. It's not patented.
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: Noodles_SlowStir on June 08, 2008, 09:12:09 AM
I always thought the cemetery was chosen because it was a good distance away from the town.  Joe wants to have everyone, particularly Ramon, his brothers and most of his men, a good distance away from the town so he can poke around the Rojos to find out where the gold was being kept.  Seemed to be one of his main motivations in setting up that event, besides restarting conflict between the two families after their dinner. 

The town is referred at one point as a cemetery.  So I agree there's the contrast of the cemetery for the living and dead.  To have the two factions go against each other in the cemetery underscores this in the film.  I would agree that the cemetery is probably close to the river massacre site.  Seems like the river site, cemetery and safe house were a ways from the town.  True, the bartender, Silvanito, helps out thinking he and Joe were going to bury the bodies.     
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: iceman on June 22, 2008, 02:14:34 PM
I always thought the cemetery was chosen because it was a good distance away from the town.  Joe wants to have everyone, particularly Ramon, his brothers and most of his men, a good distance away from the town so he can poke around the Rojos to find out where the gold was being kept.  Seemed to be one of his main motivations in setting up that event, besides restarting conflict between the two families after their dinner. 

The town is referred at one point as a cemetery.  So I agree there's the contrast of the cemetery for the living and dead.  To have the two factions go against each other in the cemetery underscores this in the film.  I would agree that the cemetery is probably close to the river massacre site.  Seems like the river site, cemetery and safe house were a ways from the town.  True, the bartender, Silvanito, helps out thinking he and Joe were going to bury the bodies.     

Yep sounds right... A cemetery would be a good place to hide, far enough away for Joe to do his snoopin' and everyone knows where it is and close enough to the river for them to have crawled to.......
      I mean you couldn't say " They are hiding in the fields, or in the hills or somewhere on the river bank now could you, they could have been anywhere...

By the way Lac whats with the name Lac qui parle which translates as "Lake which speaks" according to my online translator does it not???





ICE
Title: Re: why a cemetery?
Post by: dave jenkins on June 22, 2008, 02:30:14 PM
Old Jungle Saying: Don't take any advice from a talking lake.