Sergio Leone Web Board
Films of Sergio Leone => A Fistful of Dollars => Topic started by: KERMIT on March 09, 2004, 01:00:49 PM
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as big as the baxter mansion was i think it would have benefited the family if someone would have built a rear exit. especially if ramone lives down the street. ;D
aside from clint, who in your oppinion was unintentionaly the "coolest " character in FOD ? 8)
it's not rubio. his job was the madman ramone's offical riffle thrower.
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That was a pretty serious design flaw. I think the surviving Baxter heirs have a legimate cause of action against the architect.
I vote for Don Miguel Rojo, tres cool 8) He was the calm, mature voice of reason tempering the fire of Esteban and the ice of Ramon. Chico close second, but no cigar.
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thank you general. don miguel probably the most logical answer, but i gotta go with the old coffin maker. he had a certian positive can do quality about him.
..."and now it's time to light the fuse and send it back" ! ;D
so, who gets a vote on the most un-cool..... ???
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Yeah, the old undertaker (Jose, I think his name was) - he knew what time it was.
As to the Baxters' mansion, well, the Rojos had obviously planned the massacre fairly well - the barrels rolling off the cart, and all the gang lined up ready to pick off Baxters as they emerged. They probably thought ahead and decided to put something heavy against the back door. Mind you, it would've been pretty funny if they'd all sat there for 5 minutes and no-one had come out of the burning building, then Esteban had gone round the back only to see all the Baxters lined up, with John Baxter doing a head count and Consuela running back in to save the cat or something.
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Most uncool character - The young Baxter son - the one who gets slapped.
Not very interesting fact: One of the Baxter gang was played by a man called Antonio Rojo.
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Most uncool character - The young Baxter son - the one who gets slapped.
Not very interesting fact: One of the Baxter gang was played by a man called Antonio Rojo.
REDYRED, you are correct sir. when the baxter son, with a serious wardrobe hat problem, second olny to estaban's sombrero :-* , makes a ham of himself when he is shot in the massacre by sprawling across
a barrel. i think his hat finally fell off at this point. and mother's love ? first she hugs the son then bitch-slaps him the crap out of him in front of everybody. :P
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Most uncool? Gotta be Silvanito the bartender, what the hell was he thinking when he got dressed in the morning. Plus he was constantly whining about how dangerous it was for Joe to be in the middle with the Baxters on one side and the Rojos on the other - zero cojones.
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Most uncool? Gotta be Silvanito the bartender, what the hell was he thinking when he got dressed in the morning. Plus he was constantly whining about how dangerous it was for Joe to be in the middle with the Baxters on one side and the Rojos on the other - zero cojones.
I disagree, Silvanito had plenty of guts. Remember his standing up to Ramon numerous times, even when getting beaten and nearly killed? Plus his pulling the gun on Ramon during the trade of hostages. Can't argue about his fashion sense though, LOL. ;D
I personally didn't really like Ramon's (implicitly) gay brother Esteban. I think that he was a very appropriate character for the film, but he seriously creeps me out.
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Jason Robards would have been better choice to play Esteban.
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Jason Robards would have been better choice to play Esteban.
Any reason for saying this . . .?
I'm not saying I disagree, but why are you bringing this up?
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The guy who played Esteban was way, way too over-the-top with the flamboyance. The role screamed for someone with the gravitas of a Robards.
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groggy, i'd have to agree w/ the general about robards breathing new life into estaban's persona. :-\
it seems your idea that won the title of best thread could again be interresting to play with this film as
well. :)
BTW, sorry to butt in here, you were discussing this w/ the general. can you cast some ideas concerning who, in your opinion, would have made a good esteban ?
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Jason Robards would have been better choice to play Esteban.
jason robards ? NOT AGAIN ! :o
GROGGY, estaban creeps me out also.
# 1 the sombraro
# 2 that laugh
# 3 those eyes ::)
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groggy, i'd have to agree w/ the general about robards breathing new life into estaban's persona. :-\
it seems your idea that won the title of best thread could again be interresting to play with this film as
well. :)
BTW, sorry to butt in here, you were discussing this w/ the general. can you cast some ideas concerning who, in your opinion, would have made a good esteban ?
Well, I can't honestly say I have a choice. I think that given the context, his character was very appropriate - he just happens not to be my cup of tea. Not that I'm homophobic or anything, just the WAY he acts is f***in' scary. Which I assume was the intention.
But if you have another casting idea, Kermit, I'm more than happy to hear it. ;D
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But could Jason Robard's do that pschotic, Mutley-esque laugh in the torture scene?
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But could Jason Robard's do that pschotic, Mutley-esque laugh in the torture scene?
eastaban's creepy laugh reminded me of a witch's
cackle. mickey roarke might have made a good esteban.
i believe after while polaxing the rojos, it was silvanito who shot gunned a bushwhacking esteban.
the're may have beem aligators behind the baxter mansion. ;D
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eastaban's creepy laugh reminded me of a witche's
cackle. mickey roarke might have made a good esteban.
i believe after while polaxing the rojos, it was silvanito who shot gunned a bushwhacking esteban.
the're may have beem aligators behind the baxter mansion. ;D
An alligator in the Mexican desert? That's a bit of stretch, Kermit. ;D
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That would make it all the more frightening.
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An alligator in the Mexican desert? That's a bit of stretch, Kermit. ;D
would you believe ramone sneeked in and made sure the baxter family mansion's "rear exit" fire escape signs weren't' working ? :P
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would you believe ramone sneeked in and made sure the baxter family mansion's "rear exit" fire escape signs weren't' working ? :P
Possibly. ;D
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i guess the rear of the baxter family mansion was on fire
so no escape there. but i'd take my chances running through the fire knowing ramone & guys were out there having a turkey shoot. " the shows over anyway". ;D
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There might've been a mean-looking dog out back.
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Or a team of ninjas perhaps.
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i think don miguel rojo he is the only 'sane' member of the rojo's.
r.i.p don miguel rojo.
crazy bellringer was right. Theres money to be made in this town.
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i've been struggling with this lately. nobody builds a house with out some sort of back door. holy suspention of disbeleief. if i were employed by the baxters with a rival like ramon & estaban, i would take it upon mice elf to check out a rear escape route. in case ramone got persnikity.
i wouldn't want to just come out one night and become
a moving turkey for ramones men to kill off.
tragic.
.
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i've been struggling with this lately. nobody builds a house with out some sort of back door. holy suspention of disbeleief. if i were employed by the baxters with a rival like ramon & estaban, i would take it upon mice elf to check out a rear escape route. in case ramone got persnikity.
i wouldn't want to just come out one night and become
a moving turkey for ramones men to kill off.
tragic.
.
Maybe there was, and some of the Baxters escaped out the back, while John and Co. were just stupid enough to go ot the front. I mean, could not some of the guys in Indio's gang in FAFDM have been survivors of the Baxter massacre? ;D
Or maybe, the idiot who designed the house built it up against an alley? I'd blame the architect before I'd blame the Baxters.
Or maybe John was just so cocky that didn't think he'd need a back exit. :P
What the Baxter home needed more than a rear exit was a Gatling gun or something of that sort. They would've been able to annhilate Ramon's gang before they came out (though there is the chance in the fire that the gun could explode).
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Maybe they had a couple of guys back there covering the back... Nailed up the doors and windows??? Fire blocking the way... I don't know, they could of all had a death wish... ;D
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Thanks guys. Was just re-reading this thread and it got me out of my depression. You guys is the greatest! ;D
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Well General, being only a Captain it don't seem right for me to go against you but the undertaker if rather cool. Chico being a close second would have to change to The Don Miguel, the good at heart senior of the Rojo's. Uncoolest would go to Jesus, Despite his sybolic name of the innocent young child, he is crying and whiny the whole movie long.
Mansion, poor planning, but how did Clint enter the house with out using the front when he goes to warn them? Cunningham Architects definitly needs to do a remodeling for the heirs of the reckage.
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Well General, being only a Captain it don't seem right for me to go against you but the undertaker if rather cool. Chico being a close second would have to change to The Don Miguel, the good at heart senior of the Rojo's. Uncoolest would go to Jesus, Despite his sybolic name of the innocent young child, he is crying and whiny the whole movie long.
Mansion, poor planning, but how did Clint enter the house with out using the front when he goes to warn them? Cunningham Architects definitly needs to do a remodeling for the heirs of the reckage.
There was probably a trapdoor some place. . .
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There was probably a trapdoor some place. . .
well, they didn't use it. "hold your fire....we're comming out.. please don't shoot us like the swine we are. we
had a trap door made to escape but we trust ramone rojo. we love esteban also. ::) we heard ramone had hung his gun upon the wall for
peace putting rubio out of a job. we heard the madman ramone is sick of all these killings. were coming out ! we surrender ! hold your fire.
i was there groggy. i chose to sneak out the trap door.
what can i say ? i, too, am tired of all these killings. ;D
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There was probably a trapdoor some place. . .
would you beleive a ninga alligator escaped from florida prison farm secretly terrorizing baxter clan ?
i scare mice elf groggy
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The Baxter mansion sure was one wacky fun house. If only it had also been an inflatable bouncy-mansion.
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The Baxter mansion sure was one wacky fun house. If only it had also been an inflatable bouncy-mansion.
right on the money red. serious interior decorator
problem. leone had a thing for big rooms. rooms w/ no escape. :o
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Another question...why doesn't it burn to the ground..it is made of wood isn't it, and who put the fire out ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
ICE
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The Baxter mansion sure was one wacky fun house. If only it had also been an inflatable bouncy-mansion.
Or a moonwalker. :P
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Have to bump this thread. . . ;D
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this thread should be smoked out into cyberspace and the swine slaughtered who contributed to it , lol
but, what do you know folks, i just saw yojimbo. there's a huge orential gang member just as there is a mario braga. we could go all night w/ the similarities of the two films.
except for one thing....the orintial version's of the baxters have the same damb problem ! no back door !
who builds a house w/ no rear entrance ?
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who builds a house w/ no rear entrance ?
Well, our small house from 18th century doesn't have additional entrance, but it's a different thing... Nothing to add to the discussion, except the fact that not all houses have it.
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this thread should be smoked out into cyberspace and the swine slaughtered who contributed to it , lol
Bring it on, Kermet. ;)
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Well, our small house from 18th century doesn't have additional entrance, but it's a different thing... Nothing to add to the discussion, except the fact that not all houses have it.
But you do have back windows, right? In the event of a fire and guys with guns watching for you to run out the front, you could get away by going out the back, right?
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Well, our small house from 18th century doesn't have additional entrance, but it's a different thing... Nothing to add to the discussion, except the fact that not all houses have it.
swell point. i don't buy it. suppose baxter's mother in law shows up. he would need to slip out the back door.
one is certian, it's taken from yojimbo. anyone care to list the many similaritys between the two films ?
at least the major ones.
leone adds revolvers and horses to gas up the ultra violence. i credit sergio leone for fusing elements together. also there's some sort of insight yojimbo gives us on TMWNN's past not related in FOD. clever ;)
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I said I wasn't adding anything to the discussion...
Actually, our "front" door is in fact "back" and our "back" window is in fact "front" (to the street). It would be hard to get out of our house other way than to the street. We would have to climb over a wall to neighbor's garden. (Which wouldn't be so difficult on such occasion, but I want to explain you how it looks like.)
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I said I wasn't adding anything to the discussion...
Actually, our "front" door is in fact "back" and our "back" window is in fact "front" (to the street). It would be hard to get out of our house other way than to the street. We would have to climb over a wall to neighbor's garden. (Which wouldn't be so difficult on such occasion, but I want to explain you how it looks like.)
to bad the baxters didn't live in your house, lol
thru this whole thread i've been waiting for someone to
explain just why there was no back door. until
i reach that point i shall press on w/ all possible
dispatch. i can't explain it cinematicly speaking.
your house sounds ultra cool, and pardon me for
missing the point that you wern't making a point ;)
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I really cannot tell how do such houses like Baxter's look like - there aren't many like that in CR. ;) But if same thing appears in Yojimbo, that could be good explanation of Baxter's problem and we should start discussing Japanese houses... or, most likely, not "we", but "you", because I have no knowledge about them.
But I cannot deny it's bad flaw from Leone...
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Oh, I forgot... Our house is situated in originally medieval town, which means it has houses everywhere around - unlike Baxter's.
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Oh, I forgot... Our house is situated in originally medieval town, which means it has houses everywhere around - unlike Baxter's.
marmota b. cool sounding layout. would you care to divulge approximate age of your town ? just curious.
;)
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It's old, because there was a very used trade path and a ford on creek, where people had to stop for a while. More than that, it was about one day journey (in those times) from Prague, so people also had to stay here for night.
It was founded in the first half of 12th century.
But our house isn't so old. ;)
I think the oldest building in our town is an old townhal (now there's library, video rental store and such things) - but it was rebuilt. As most of buildings in our town. We had a catholic gothic church, but it was rebuilt in baroque style etc.
There are also quite long underground corridors and halls. ;) And remains of old rampart. Maybe those are the oldest.
I think this was a comprehensive answer. ;D
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It's old, because there was a very used trade path and a ford on creek, where people had to stop for a while. More than that, it was about one day journey (in those times) from Prague, so people also had to stay here for night.
It was founded in the first half of 12th century.
But our house isn't so old. ;)
I think the oldest building in our town is an old townhal (now there's library, video rental store and such things) - but it was rebuilt. As most of buildings in our town. We had a catholic gothic church, but it was rebuilt in baroque style etc.
There are also quite long underground corridors and halls. ;) And remains of old rampart. Maybe those are the oldest.
I think this was a comprehensive answer. ;D
i just like the way you described your house sounds. wonderful. long as it's got a back door, as you said it does. it just occured to me i do not have a back door at all.... :o. yea, thoroughly comprehensive ;D
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To make it absolutelly clear: You come in to our property (small garden) through a door/gate and go through the garden to the end of our house (it's "long", facing the street with the narrower side), where's the main and only door of our house.
Oh, yes, I think many houses don't have back door.
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1. I really liked Silvanito.
2. RE: the burning of Baxter home, I actually have a different problem with that scene: first the Rojos use dynamite blow the fences or the stone walla or whatever surrounding the houses. But you don't see any Baxters coming out then, not even looking out the window. Then the carriages come by with the barrels of whiskey, they smash em and light em, and only then, once the house is on fire, do the Baxters start coming out. There is no doubt they heard the dynamite blast, so it makes no sense that none of them come outside to look at whats going on.
3. RE: Esteban being queer: come on, man. There are some people who like to read a queer character/subtext/text into every film; and I know that there were some queer directors/writers that used to stick these subtexts into films, but sometimes people go overboard in trying to read queer characters into every film. Why, cuz Esteban said "our men sleep here with us?" I remember reading a book by Robert Cumbow -- a terrible book, btw -- in which he says somethiing like this: one of the characteristics of TMWNN is an explicit rejection of homsexuality; not that the vilains really are queer, but that TMWNN is very strong in rejecting any notion of homosexuality. He cites as an example this scene with Joe leaving the Rojos despite Esteban's insistence that "our men stay here with us," and that in FAFDM, Manco snuck out from the hideaway when then men were sleeping.
Come on. All this shit was pre-sexual, if you ask me. In the special features of FAFDM, Frayling discusses the themes of male friendship in Leone's films (and explains how it relates to Leone's childhood, being an only child of older parents, and how important friendships were to him). And he discusses how this sort of is "not gay," but that the gays later on came and stole this sort of "iconography." I believe Frayling argues this is all "pre-sexual."
TMWNN is, above all else, an individualist, who does what he wants and is not beholden to anyone. As soon as he doesn't think it is beneficial for him to stay with the Rojos, he splits. If you wanna be the kind of person who reads a queer subtext into every movie, go ahead. I once heard a critic say that in OUATIA, Noodles and Max were having an affair; he said this during the scene where Noodles pretends to moon Max while the latter is taking a picture of him; and during the scene where Noodles first visits Moe's speakeasy after getting out of prison, when Max tries to break up Noodles's reunion with Deborah, as if Max is calling him away out of jealousy. He read this not simply as a conflict in Noodles's lifge, where he had to choose between a life of crime or a life with Deborah; but he read it as (also) being a love triangle.
Some people love to think every movie was directed by Visconte. ::). If that helps you deal with your personal anxieties, suit yourself.
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come on, man. There are some people who like to read a queer character/subtext/text into every film;
I refuse to believe it. >:(
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I refuse to believe it. >:(
me too :-X
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TMWNN is, above all else, an individualist, who does what he wants and is not beholden to anyone.
It is my opinion too and there are different statements in the film for this. And not only to the Roccos. The film is about AFOD but taking over the biggest mentioned sum of 500 USD he informs the Baxers: Yeah, that's not gonna break my heart. But it is true, the relationship to the Roccos is more complicated: TMWNN frequently moves in and out, because Leone has sympathies for the Roccos. See the scene with the first talk between Joe and Ramón, where Ramón comes down the staircase in full white like from heaven. But, and this is the progress of the film, Ramón becomes more and more dark and Leone tries to withdraw his hidden sympathies from him, with no full success. Even the relationship to Silvanito is difficult, see the silly sentence to Silvanito: Don't worry. I didn't dirty the sheets. To me, TMWNN is an early picture from Leone of a world, he refuses, and the different players, he refuses for different reasons. In this sense TMWNN is queer.