Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => A Fistful of Dollars => Topic started by: dave jenkins on February 13, 2010, 08:12:55 PM

Title: The First Dollars Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 13, 2010, 08:12:55 PM
(http://www.davekehr.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/rio-bravo-it-small.jpg)
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: Dust Devil on February 14, 2010, 07:48:15 AM
Well not quite.
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 14, 2010, 10:35:40 AM
How does that translate? "A Dollar For Honor"?
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: Dust Devil on February 14, 2010, 11:48:00 AM
More likely ''A Dollar of Honor'', though I'm not 100% sure.
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 14, 2010, 12:10:29 PM
Huh. Any idea what that's supposed to mean?
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: Groggy on February 14, 2010, 12:52:45 PM
It would refer to the opening of Rio Bravo, where Martin has to reach into the spittoon for a silver dollar, thus degrading himself. How that would apply to the entire film is beyond me.
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: Groggy on February 14, 2010, 02:36:18 PM
And the fifty dollar gold pieces that appear throughout the film: "That's how much Joe Burdett thinks a human life is worth."
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: Leonardo on February 15, 2010, 04:24:22 AM
More likely ''A Dollar of Honor'', though I'm not 100% sure.
Correct!
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 15, 2010, 05:22:05 AM
The first dollars film?

Possibly - His Last Dollar (1910) - D W Griffith

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0001249/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0001249/)
But what was it called in Italy?

My interest in this is to determine where the "Dollar" titles, so beloved of SW productions, came from. SL didn't--heh--coin the term.
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: Groggy on February 15, 2010, 08:53:40 AM
True, and he was such a big fan of Rio Bravo that it's entirely possible this was the origin of the title.
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: Leonardo on February 15, 2010, 09:07:14 AM
But what was it called in Italy?

My interest in this is to determine where the "Dollar" titles, so beloved of SW productions, came from. SL didn't--heh--coin the term.
I have no idea whether "His last dollar" by Griffith was ever released in Italy, let alone whether it ever had an italian title.
But one thing is for sure, Rio Bravo was released in Italy under the title "Un dollaro d'onore" late 1959 and it was a massive hit here. To the best of my knowledge, there was no other movie released in Italy after WW2  with the word dollar in the title which had such a great success as "Un dollaro d'onore".
So my bet is that whoever changed the title  from "The magnificent stranger" to "FOD",  must have thought about "Un dollaro d'onore". Last but not least, don't forget that Leone when discussing the soundtrack for FOD with Ennio, asked him to create a trumpet sound similar to the deguello in "Un dollaro d'onore" and "The Alamo" (score by Dimitri Tiomkin).
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 15, 2010, 09:18:55 AM
But one thing is for sure, Rio Bravo was released in Italy under the title "Un dollaro d'onore" late 1959 and it was a massive hit here. To the best of my knowledge, there was no other movie released in Italy after WW2  with the word dollar in the title which had such a great success as "Un dollaro d'onore".
So my bet is that whoever changed the title  from "The magnificent stranger" to "FOD",  must have thought about "Un dollaro d'onore". Last but not least, don't forget that Leone when discussing the soundtrack for FOD with Ennio, asked him to create a trumpet sound similar to the deguello in "Un dollaro d'onore" and "The Alamo" (score by Dimitri Tiomkin).
Ka-ching! I think we have a confirmed kill here.
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: titoli on February 15, 2010, 01:17:03 PM
I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to remember that the connection between the two titles had already been made in Frayling's bio. Anyway the poster posted by DJ, though pictorially beautiful and centered on the best scene of the movie, it has a misspelling of the title, as the correct one is:

(http://www.cinemadelsilenzio.it/images/film/poster/3766_big.jpg)



where the first vocal is elided with an apostrophe.
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 15, 2010, 02:02:16 PM
I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to remember that the connection between the two titles had already been made in Frayling's bio.
No. I just consulted the index in Frayling and there's nothing about the title. There's quite a bit about the use of the music from Rio Bravo, but that's as far as it goes. Frayling doesn't appear to know what the Italian title was. Maybe the connection was established in some other source?

Thanks for the spelling correction. Can you believe those guys on the other poster got it wrong? Typical Italian efficiency, what?
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: Novecento on February 15, 2010, 03:07:06 PM
Thanks for the spelling correction. Can you believe those guys on the other poster got it wrong? Typical Italian efficiency, what?

I'm not an Italian speaker, but is it a misspelling or rather a variant way of writing it without the spoken elision? Maybe they decided to go with the elision later on?
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: titoli on February 15, 2010, 05:02:52 PM
No. I just consulted the index in Frayling and there's nothing about the title. There's quite a bit about the use of the music from Rio Bravo, but that's as far as it goes. Frayling doesn't appear to know what the Italian title was. Maybe the connection was established in some other source?

Thanks for the spelling correction. Can you believe those guys on the other poster got it wrong? Typical Italian efficiency, what?

Yeah, probably  on an italian source (De Fornari?), as it would be more natural to get hip to the connection.
About the spelling, it is strange because to an italian the first spelling would come quite innatural, though formally correct. I think it was the distributor who got it all wrong, but once he had the posters printed he didn't take any trouble to have them printed again for a (debatably) minor mistake. As you have noticed, the poster I posted bears the newer WB logo, which means it is the one used for the re-release of the movie in the late '70's (which is when I saw the movie the first time). I remember the poster was that one.
Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: titoli on February 15, 2010, 05:09:35 PM
I'm not an Italian speaker, but is it a misspelling or rather a variant way of writing it without the spoken elision? Maybe they decided to go with the elision later on?

No italian would ever write or pronounce the phrase without the elision. Or if some would, it would be an irrelevant minority: it sounds very innatural. And, after all, they took the trouble to change it, didn't they? I would be curious to know if the original credits bore the same misspelling, though I doubt it.


Title: Re: The First Dollars Film
Post by: drinkanddestroy on February 14, 2011, 04:33:42 PM
I have no idea whether "His last dollar" by Griffith was ever released in Italy, let alone whether it ever had an italian title.
But one thing is for sure, Rio Bravo was released in Italy under the title "Un dollaro d'onore" late 1959 and it was a massive hit here. To the best of my knowledge, there was no other movie released in Italy after WW2  with the word dollar in the title which had such a great success as "Un dollaro d'onore".
So my bet is that whoever changed the title  from "The magnificent stranger" to "FOD",  must have thought about "Un dollaro d'onore". Last but not least, don't forget that Leone when discussing the soundtrack for FOD with Ennio, asked him to create a trumpet sound similar to the deguello in "Un dollaro d'onore" and "The Alamo" (score by Dimitri Tiomkin).

I think Frayling said that Leone initially actually wanted to use the very same De Guello as in Rio Bravo, cuz he thought it was the actual song the Mexicans played at the Alamo! Then, when he found out it was actually composed by Tiomkin for the movie, he asked Morricone to instead compose his own Mexican funeral dirge for the film