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Messages - Don_Wiley_Quixote

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1
Duck, You Sucker / Re: Was Gunther Ruiz German ?
« on: April 29, 2006, 05:15:28 AM »

  I don't think he's meant to be a villain in the vein of Frank or Indio.  The movie focuses on Juan and John so not a whole lot of background development was given to Ruiz, and I kinda prefer it that way.  It lets us make up our mind about him and who he is.

Absolutely….This movie encapsulates the world and while it is flawed (like the real world) characters are not black and white…this isn’t an all or nothing picture.

Critics have slammed the film on occasion for its comic book 2-D origins but Leone brought the images alive with his own inimitable spin and style and gave them more depth. He told a story and we’re still talking about over 30 years later.

Your view in the picture like that of a scene of the mountain is changed as you traverse it and your perspective is changed. It’s still the same mountain but viewed from a different angle.

This wasn’t a movie about Gunter Ruiz but with his limited part in the movie his impact was all the more greater. You see his evil machinations and his deep felt satisfaction at the executions. The implication of his ‘slaughter of the innocents’ makes him all the more culpable. The impact of his crimes are psychologically greater when we see the consequences of actions rather than a graphic display of cruelty.

2
Duck, You Sucker / Re: Final Flashback?
« on: April 27, 2006, 01:56:40 AM »
Can you not get a copy of "Giu la Testa" the Italian version as this has the final ending you mentioned.

 It's also far better quality than other versions I've seen for example you see far greater detail in the 'Black and Tan' flashback scene.

Unfortunately the French version I have "Once upon a time ...Revolution" omits this final 3 minutes.

I'm sure an English version I saw in the eighties had the scene with Juan with the final utterance "What about me ?...."

3
Duck, You Sucker / Re: Was Gunther Ruiz German ?
« on: April 24, 2006, 10:56:21 PM »
I agree he's an excellent villain. It's a sign of a good actor if you actually loathe him in a film.

However up until the bridge scene he's just looks hard and then totally disorientated after the dynamite etc.

He's only revealed as being really nasty until after this scene.

The only difference between Gunther, Sean & Juan is the 'good guys' let the innocents go.

4
Duck, You Sucker / Re: Plot Question
« on: April 24, 2006, 09:27:25 AM »
Doesn't Juan say go back to the cave/grotto and if all goes wrong every man for himself ? Maybe their location was betrayed by the doctor.


5
Duck, You Sucker / Was Gunther Ruiz German ?
« on: April 24, 2006, 02:42:03 AM »
and if so was he a mercenary ?

Don't you almost feel sorry for him upto the point he loses his armoured toy army at the bridge. :'(

6
Duck, You Sucker / Re: quality of film
« on: April 21, 2006, 11:57:16 PM »
I've just seen the Italian version and the picture quality is excellent, far better than the French and English versions ;D

7
Duck, You Sucker / Re: IRA or IRB historical mismatch
« on: April 21, 2006, 01:59:09 AM »
Before the Easter Rising (the anniversary of which is in 3 days time) there was no "revolution" in Ireland. Leone got it wrong historically, or just moved the timeline for dramatic effect. The fact that Leone talked about the "young men" of the Irish rebellion possibly taking part in the Mexican one, when in fact any kind of a "wee fart of a revolution" was 6 years away yet in Dublin, leads me to think that Sergio didn't know what he was talking about. Not that it really matters or detracts from the film.

Certainly at the time the movie was made there were a string of terrorist atrocities through out Europe (and the middle East), and many of Leone's friend's noted a general political cynicism had crept into his conversation by this point. Most people in the world who read newspapers by then (or had watched a few John Ford films) knew who the IRA were.

As for where Coburn had aquired his dynamite skills from, I suggested in another thread that they were not learned through an armed conflict, but in fact from University. He is clearly a member of the wealthy classes (the car, the clothes, the county mansion/even if they are not his and they are Warbeck's, he's a man of means with rich friends). He has probabaly studied mining (the job he has at the start of the film) or  chemistry.

By 1910 there was no other way Coburn could have learned his trade "historically". It was only in 1911 that the IRB became an organised and militant force, and even then only in Ulster, and not in the South, where Leone places Coburn. It would be another two years before the IRB in the North set up it's paramilitry force, the Irish Volunteers. A couple of weeks later in Dublin, the Irish Citizen Army was formed.

Boring, isn't it? Not at all the sort of detail you really want to put in a drama (unless you are Ken Loach). No wonder Sergio and his screenwriters kept it more simple, if streaching historical truth.



Thanks Juan Miranda.

I had heard of dynamite campaigns on the British mainland on subway lines and industrial targets but that was in the 1880s.

8
Duck, You Sucker / Re: IRA or IRB historical mismatch
« on: April 19, 2006, 10:49:34 PM »
I suppose what I'm asking is was there some form of rebellion in Ireland before the Mexican revolution where Mallory could have gained his expertise in dynamiting etc. ;)

9
Duck, You Sucker / Re: IRA or IRB historical mismatch
« on: April 19, 2006, 10:16:10 PM »
Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking this movie.

It's one of the greatest ever.

All great works of art have flaws.

Hey if  i was going to be pedantic I'd mention the weaponry used.

It'd just be interesting if the general historical sweep was in order.

10
Duck, You Sucker / IRA or IRB historical mismatch
« on: April 19, 2006, 09:58:45 PM »
I read some where on this board that someone was really dissapointed to find out that the IRA was formed sometime after Seans arrival in Mexico. So the flag pulled from his motorcycle could never have existed.

Could this be due to the era this film was made i.e. early seventies and the re-surgence of the IRA in N. Ireland. Hence global recognition.

Wouldn't it have been better to use an IRB flag (or none at all) which was formed much earlier which had a dynamite campaign on  the British mainland in the 1880s. Would this make Sean too old for the Mexican revolution  ???

Indeed was there  a concerted Irish rebel campaign before the Easter uprising of 1916?


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