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Messages - Ken45

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Once Upon A Time In America / Re: The role of women and sex in OUATIA
« on: September 30, 2021, 11:43:11 AM »
I want to give SL the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the women in OUATIA, and not consider them one dimensional.  I could be wrong - but I was hoping someone had some put.

It's funny you mention the Jewish topic.  I've always taken the primary characters' Jewish heritage to be part of the original book, and just part of the story.  Which is all true.  Then, there's the question of the Chauffeur.  The Chauffeur that drives Noodles and Deborah on their date, and then turns a blind eye during the rape of Deborah is odd.  I always thought that the Chauffeur was just Noodles' regular driver, and was used to seeing him do violent things to women in the back seat.  But in the "Director's Cut" - there's a scene added that has Noodles talking to the Chauffer - before Noodles' date with Deborah.  Where the Driver and Noodles discuss the NAZI violence in Germany.   The Chauffeur tells Noodles that the Jews have enough problems without them becoming hoodlums.  This took a lot of guts to say to Noodles.

After the rape, when he drops off Noodles, the Chauffeur rejects Noodles tip.  I think there's more going on with the women in the film and the Jewish heritage of the hoods.  Not sure about that.

I've always wondered about the timing of OUATIA and the power-take over of the Nazi's.  The Chauffer' discussion with Noodles is the only mention of the Nazi's.

Once Upon A Time In America / The role of women and sex in OUATIA
« on: September 29, 2021, 05:03:21 PM »
I have issue with the role of women in this film:

Deborah - Virgin beauty - initially seen surrounded in white (flour).  Only to be worshiped from afar.

Peggy - low class whore - being dirty amongst the clean laundry

Peggy's mother - let's Peggy be a whore for money - and shows her naked body to Patsy in the bath

Eve - High class whore - who takes Noodles money - but wants a relationship with him.  She wants to be the "Deborah" in Noodles life.

 Carol - Pretty whorish - likes sex against her will.

There are no other female leads

Sex is sometihing that Noodles uses to hurt women - he quickly gives it to Peggy to lose his virginity.  He rapes Carol, who likes it.  He can't get it up for Eve - who wants to love him tenderly.  He rapes Deborah and she's destroyed, and leaves forever.

I don't understand what SL was trying to say with women and sex in this film

Anyone have an explanation?

Once Upon A Time In America / The Real Meaning of the End - OUATIA
« on: September 29, 2021, 04:56:22 PM »
Noodles calls the Police to try and save Max.  Sgt Hallorhan (an unseen character in the film - and uncasted) does not answer the call.  It rings and rings.  Noodles hangs up.  Max come in and beats the heck out of Noodles.  Noodles leaves.  That night he witnesses the corpses of this friends lying on the street, after they were killed by the FEDS (not the police).  Noodles goes to the Opium den with the guilt of failing to save his friends - because he didn't reach the Police.  Noodles gets high and dreams of a happy future where Max is still alive, and Deborah is still young and beautiiful.    Eve doesn't die.  All the rest is part of Noodles dream.  That explains why the bullet hole body outline in Noodles apt looks like a cartoon.  It's all in Noodles head.   


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