Thoughts on this film

[Noodles_SlowStir]

though it does quote from Eisenstein’s "Que Vive Mexico" and the Hollywood tradition of Zapatas

Are there many quotes from Eisenstein's "Que Vive Mexico"? 

I didn't know much about that production.  On Friday, I came across an article from a Florida newspaper that talked a little about the film because it was being shown in a local theater.  There was a brief mention of Sergio.  The writer stated the film was very much admired by John Huston and Sergio, and quite influential.  The article talked about how Eisenstein was basically bankrolled ($25 grand) by Upton Sinclair to make a non political film of Mexico.  The production was doomed from the start because there was no way Eisenstein would ever not include his politics in his film work.  I guess he had an adventure similar to Orson Welles in South America....shooting tons of footage, exceeding budget and having the film taken away from him.

I guess I knew stylistically that Eisenstein is quite influential with the close ups, "facial landscapes" and the contrasting long shots that at times minimize the characters in the landscape.  In the commentary of DYS, on the opening sequence in the coach, it points out the references to Eisenstein's Strike, Potemkin and October in showing the ugly eatting close ups and how it's commenting on the ugly class prejudices and division being shown. 

What I didn't realize was that the rape scene between Steiger and Maria Monti was kind of a direct quote to Que Vive Mexico.  Sergio does spend quite some time on that sequence.  In the commentary, there's talk of the opening quote setting the stage for his statement on revolution, his cynicism toward the popular political ideas of contemporaries after May 68.  It points out that in the opening scenes, he was trying to establish that this film was going to be very different from his other westerns.  In the rape scene, we see the threshing circle which we associate with the other films, but that we're given something entirely different than the usual gunfight or showdown.  In reading the article, it talks about the rape scene of the peasant woman that becomes the act which incites revenge and revolution against the "ruling class".  I didn't realize that the rape scene in DYS was really a direct quote in which Sergio was I guess subverting the material.   Because his film, unlike Que Vive Mexico, would not have a positive view of revolution, he reverses the scene having Juan rape the upper class woman.

Were there many other direct references like this?  Guess I should watch Que Vive Mexico and The Informer.  It would be real interesting I think.

[dave jenkins]

In the rape scene, we see the threshing circle which we associate with the other films, but that we're given something entirely different than the usual gunfight or showdown.  In reading the article, it talks about the rape scene of the peasant woman that becomes the act which incites revenge and revolution against the "ruling class".  I didn't realize that the rape scene in DYS was really a direct quote in which Sergio was I guess subverting the material.   Because his film, unlike Que Vive Mexico, would not have a positive view of revolution, he reverses the scene having Juan rape the upper class woman.

Wow, thanks, Raman-san, that's a great insight. I don't know Eisenstein well enough to make those (very necessary) associations.

[Kurug3n]

Anyone notice the shadow that Juan has when hes done peeing on the ants

[cigar joe]

Yea its a huge member, which is the lead up to the payoff when Juan un-bottons his pants in front of the aristocrat woman and she see's his junk and swoons. 

An old Juan Miranda joke:

Juan and a Texan are standing on a bridge, they both got to pee, the Texan and Juan both whip out their tools and begin to pee,  the Texan says to Juan, "boy that water sure is cool" and Juan replies "and deep too".

[dave jenkins]

 

[Tuco the ugly]

An old Juan Miranda joke:

Juan and a Texan are standing on a bridge, they both got to pee, the Texan and Juam both whip out their tools and begin to pee,  the Texan says to Juan, "boy that water sure is cool" and Juan replies "and deep too".

That's actually and old racist joke.

[cigar joe]

Racist, I always heard it told as two Texans???

[Tuco the ugly]

Racist, I always heard it told as two Texans???

The joke goes like this:

Two black guys are standing on the breakwater, thinking if they should jump in the water or not. So the first one lowers his 'member' down in the water and goes: ''Shit! It's freezing!'', and the other one replies: ''Fuck it! It's full of sea-urchins down there!''.

Old joke.

[cigar joe]

Old, Yea its origin is lost in time 

[Tuco the ugly]

Old, Yea its origin is lost in time 

 

[Groggy]

Wow, you guys are discussing penis jokes and rrpower is nowhere in sight.

[dave jenkins]

Wow, you guys are discussing penis jokes and rrpower is nowhere in sight.

No doubt, however, that some region of his anatomy is burning.

[PowerRR]

penis

[manuel]

I thought this film was good. Enjoyable but Leone's slow pacing often seems out of place and as a result, several stretches in the film are boring.

[cigar joe]

Symbolism of the flashbacks from IMDb
   
by RhodyDave (Sat Jan 5 2013 11:31:17)   
   
I think the woman and the man in John's flashbacks are symbols for his relationship to the revolutions - Irish and Mexican. At first he's in 'love' with the 'girl' which is a symbol for the romanticized vision of revolution. The 'man' represents the reality of revolution - violence, loss, etc.

In the scene in the car, John is romancing the girl, while the man/soldier is driving or leading them down the literal road to revolution and death. The man tries to interrupt John's romance and John responds by mashing the accelerator to the floor, hastening the trip to it's inevitable and bloody end.

In the final flashback, John and the girl are again romantically engaged, while the man (the Revolution) impatiently looms over his shoulder, waiting to steal the romantic vision of the girl from John. When John sees what the reality of the Revolution does with his 'girl' he loses his smile, his innocence, and his romantic ideals for good.