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: Old Films Noir Index (so called)  ( 60868 )
dave jenkins
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« #15 : January 29, 2017, 09:30:06 AM »

But how many black-and-white noirs were there in the 60's? Are you stretching the period by a decade just to cover a handful of films?
Even if that's the case, why not?

One of the things often noted in the decline of noir is the fact that a lot of the look and sensibilities of the thing migrated to TV in the late 50s. NBC was the first all color network, and I don't think they went the full peacock until 1965. Meanwhile you had such important noir-like shows like Perry Mason (57-66) and Alfred Hitchcock Presents/The Alfred Hitchcock Hour (55-62-65) andThe Fugitive (63-67) going on. Why not expand the parameters so as to take in the great Noir TV episodes? If true noir requires b&w cinematography, then it seems reasonable to me count everything eligible until all-color became the industry standard.



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« #16 : January 29, 2017, 03:41:26 PM »

Even if that's the case, why not?

One of the things often noted in the decline of noir is the fact that a lot of the look and sensibilities of the thing migrated to TV in the late 50s. NBC was the first all color network, and I don't think they went the full peacock until 1965. Meanwhile you had such important noir-like shows like Perry Mason (57-66) and Alfred Hitchcock Presents/The Alfred Hitchcock Hour (55-62-65) andThe Fugitive (63-67) going on. Why not expand the parameters so as to take in the great Noir TV episodes? If true noir requires b&w cinematography, then it seems reasonable to me count everything eligible until all-color became the industry standard.

Agree, include Naked City TV Series (1958–1963), Mike Hammer TV (1958–1959), Peter Gunn TV (1958–1961), Johnny Staccato TV (1959), Richard Diamond, Private Detective TV (1957–1960) Johnny Midnight TV (1960) and I'm seen episodes of Suspense TV (1949–1954) that were quite noir-ish.


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« #17 : January 29, 2017, 04:48:46 PM »

Some have even made the case that The Twilight Zone is noir-ish. Hey, it's got the right name for it.



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« #18 : January 29, 2017, 05:53:36 PM »

Some have even made the case that The Twilight Zone is noir-ish. Hey, it's got the right name for it.

Check out episode one if you get a chance, lots of Dutch Angles in that one, hell even some Outer Limits were very noiri-sh.


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« #19 : March 19, 2017, 03:16:27 AM »

Found this on a Criminal Element.com article full article here: http://www.criminalelement.com/blogs/2011/05/masters-of-darkness-and-light-film-noirs-unheralded-geniuses

Listed below are sixteen cinemeatographers who shot some 135 film noirs during the classic period. That’s over one third of the entire body of classic noir, including the majority of its masterworks! Here’s where to start appreciating the major, and often undervalued, contribution of these great artists:

John Alton-T-Men, Raw Deal, The Big Combo
Burnett Guffey-The Reckless Moment, In A Lonely Place, Scandal Sheet
Nicholas Musuraca-Stranger On The Third Floor, Out Of The Past, Roadblock
John F. Seitz-Double Indemnity, The Big Clock, Sunset Blvd.
Harry J. Wild-Murder My Sweet, Pitfall, Cornered
Joseph LaShelle-Laura, Fallen Angel, Where The Sidewalk Ends
James Wong Howe-Body And Soul, He Ran All The Way, The Sweet Smell Of Success
Milton Krasner-The Woman in the Window, Scarlet Street, The Set-Up
George Diskant-Desperate, Kansas City Confidential, The Narrow Margin
Franz F. Planer-Criss Cross, 99 River Street, The Long Wait
Joseph P. Biroc-Cry Danger, The Killer That Stalked New York, World For Ransom
Joseph MacDonald-Pickup On South Street, Panic In The Streets, Street With No Name
Russell Metty-Kiss The Blood Off My Hands, Ride The Pink Horse, Touch Of Evil
Ernest Laszlo-M (1951), DOA, Kiss My Deadly
Lee Garmes-Caught, Nightmare Alley, Detective Story
Woody Bredell-The Killers, Phantom Lady, The Unsuspected


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« #20 : March 19, 2017, 09:05:23 AM »

Joseph LaShelle-Laura, Fallen Angel, Where The Sidewalk Ends
And all with Dana Andrews. A natural trilogy.

Very helpful list, Joe, thanks.  O0



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« #21 : March 20, 2017, 11:10:08 AM »

Found this on a Criminal Element.com article full article here: http://www.criminalelement.com/blogs/2011/05/masters-of-darkness-and-light-film-noirs-unheralded-geniuses

Great article, thanks for sharing!  O0


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« #22 : October 31, 2017, 03:44:11 AM »

But how many black-and-white noirs were there in the 60's? Are you stretching the period by a decade just to cover a handful of films?

With due diligence if identified about 43 between 1960-67-8.


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« #23 : October 31, 2017, 03:47:14 AM »

Just following up on this, with due diligence if identified about 43 between 1960-67-8.


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« #24 : April 07, 2024, 07:17:40 AM »

Do Melville movies like Le Cercle rouge and Le samourai count as noir? Or neo-noir? They certainly have that kind of atmosphere.

And what about French movies from the 30s/40s that kinda predated American noir but have the similar vibe (ya know, the kinda movies where a young Jean Gabin plays a doomed anti-hero)?

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« #25 : April 07, 2024, 10:57:34 PM »

Do Melville movies like Le Cercle rouge and Le samourai count as noir? Or neo-noir? They certainly have that kind of atmosphere.

And what about French movies from the 30s/40s that kinda predated American noir but have the similar vibe (ya know, the kinda movies where a young Jean Gabin plays a doomed anti-hero)?

I just watched Le Cercle Rouge and Port of Shadows again. (The wife was watching both for the first time.) 

The latter is known as ?poetic realism.? Often considered a precursor to noir.


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« #26 : April 08, 2024, 04:52:41 AM »

Port of Shadows is so beautiful (I think it may have been an inspiration for Carlito's Way, at least some plot elements).

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« #27 : April 08, 2024, 04:00:11 PM »

Do Melville movies like Le Cercle rouge and Le samourai count as noir? Or neo-noir? They certainly have that kind of atmosphere.

And what about French movies from the 30s/40s that kinda predated American noir but have the similar vibe (ya know, the kinda movies where a young Jean Gabin plays a doomed anti-hero)?

You almost have to go country by country

I would say the original French Noir are the Poetic Realist Noir from mid 1930's (this is where the term came from) , Classic French Noir would be from 1940 to the New Wave, and French Neo Noir afterwards.

American Classic Film noir 1940- 1959 Transitional Noir 1960-1969 Neo 1970 onwards

Classic Brit Noir from 1938 to the 60's Neo noir

Proto Noir from 1920's The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari - but can be from any country - German - American - Mexican - etc., etc.

Classic Japanese Noir probably post WWII - but where it seques over to Neo Noir I don't know.

China has some great Neo Noir but must have some Classic Noir also.


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« #28 : April 08, 2024, 06:05:27 PM »

I just watched Le Cercle Rouge and Port of Shadows again. (The wife was watching both for the first time.) 
Which did she prefer? I'm betting she liked Le Cercle Rouge better, if only because Delon gets women more excited than Gabin.



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