Clash by Night (1952)

[drinkanddestroy]

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044502/

Clash by Night (1952)

Eddie Muller's intro https://youtu.be/ztGGojxgCSM

Eddie Muller's outro https://youtu.be/NeLxBfbTuHk

One of the rare movies generally considered noir which has no crime

[dave jenkins]

Which is why it isn't a noir. I refuse to knuckle under to such obvious marketing b.s.

[T.H.]

While it isn't noir it sure is a turkey.

[cigar joe]

Which is why it isn't a noir. I refuse to knuckle under to such obvious marketing b.s.

Noir don't have to have crime. Of the original American Films that the two French critics said reminded them of Film Noir from the 30s, when they hit Paris all at once after WWII was Lost Weekend, an addiction flick.

If that were the case, they had to have crime In A Lonely Place and Sweet Smell Of Success and a few others wouldn't be wouldn't be Noir either. It's subjective, depending on your life's circumstances which films will tip noir and which ones wont. I tune to them as all movies from the dark side if they have the right style, story, and visual look they click/tune "noir" for me.

[drinkanddestroy]

Noir don't have to have crime. Of the original American Films that the two French critics said reminded them of Film Noir from the 30s, when they hit Paris all at once after WWII was Lost Weekend, an addiction flick.

If that were the case, they had to have crime In A Lonely Place and Sweet Smell Of Success and a few others wouldn't be wouldn't be Noir either. It's subjective, depending on your life's circumstances which films will tip noir and which ones wont. I tune to them as all movies from the dark side if they have the right style, story, and visual look they click/tune "noir" for me.

In a Lonely Place at least has the suspicion of a crime.

[drinkanddestroy]

Which is why it isn't a noir. I refuse to knuckle under to such obvious marketing b.s.

I guess Eddie Muller knuckles under to “obvious marketing b.s.”   

BTW, I have never seen anyone put periods in “b.s.” 

[cigar joe]

In a Lonely Place at least has the suspicion of a crime.

A couple of other Noir where no one dies are Pickup and The Set Up.

[drinkanddestroy]

A couple of other Noir where no one dies are Pickup and The Set Up.

Nobody has to die, but one of the most basic elements of noir is that it is a crime drama. THE SET-UP certainly features crime - the gangsters trying to fix a boxing match.

[cigar joe]

but one of the most basic elements of noir is that it is a crime drama.

It should read "one of the most common elements" of "American film" noir is that it's a crime drama, but not all, Lost Weekend one of the American Films recognized by critics Nino Frank and Jean Pierre Chartier in Paris after WWII was about addiction.

(Charles O’Brien - Film Noir In France: Before The Liberation) - There are nine film noirs identified in O’Briens essay: Pierre Chenal’s “Crime and Punishment” (1935), Jean Renoir’s “The Lower Depths” (Les Bas-fonds) (1936), Julien Duvivier’s “Pépé le Moko” (1937), Jeff Musso’s “The Puritan” (1938), Marcel Carné’s “Port of Shadows” (Le Quai des brumes) (1938), Jean Renoir’s “La Bête Humaine” (1938), Marcel Carné’s “Hôtel du Nord” (1938), Marcel Carné’s “Le Jour se lève” (Daybreak) 1939, and Pierre Chenal’s “Le Dernier Tournant” (1939).

Five of the films are of the poetic realism movement (although as with anything else that could be debated): “The Lower Depths,” “Pépé le Moko,” Port of Shadows,” “La Bête Humaine” and “Le Jour se lève.” The other four films contain similar themes. In three of the films the protagonist commits suicide and suicide plays a role in two other films. In three of the films the protagonist is incarcerated or executed by the state. In one film the protagonist is killed senselessly. Three films have wives conspiring with lovers to kill husbands. In two films the protagonist survives with a lover although what follows that survival isn’t clear and in one film one lover is shot in a botched suicide pact. What also isn’t clear is whether there are more films called “noirs” that will show up with subsequent research and whether similar and earlier films made before the term “film noir” first hit ink are also film noirs.

The film noirs considered part of the poetic realism movement have a visual style that would influence the American crime film made both during and after the war with “Port of Shadows” being the most obvious example, the other films are made in different styles. The remaining films – “Hôtel du Nord” and “Le Dernier Tournant” – are filmed in a more conventional style although the content contains murder or suicide and the other social taboos that are a mainstay of the film noirs.

None of these films are about private detectives hard-boiled or otherwise and none of them are police procedurals or stories where the police – or any member of governmental society – are seen as heroic. The films are about the working class and those below the working class or, in a few films, what was once referred to as the Lumpenproletariat. In fact, there isn’t a single crime film – as that term is conventionally used – in the list. “Pépé Le Moko,” a film that centers on a fugitive criminal hiding in the Casbah of Algiers, is a film about memory and desire more than anything else and its suicide ending has to do with facing what the character believes he has lost and not the possibility of incarceration.

[dave jenkins]

It should read "one of the most common elements" of "American film" noir is that it's a crime drama, but not all, Lost Weekend one of the American Films recognized by critics Nino Frank and Jean Pierre Chartier in Paris after WWII was about addiction.

But addiction often leads to crime as it does in Lost Weekend: Ray Miland becomes a purse snatcher.

[cigar joe]

But addiction often leads to crime as it does in Lost Weekend: Ray Miland becomes a purse snatcher.

Yea it often does.  For me my definition now is the film has to have the visual elements adapted by film noir, a dark story line, doesn't have to be Crime, could be any genre, and if it shows some creative style and boundary pushing, great.

I remember once you mentioned that people tend to call Crime films they like Noirs. I really like films that have the above elements, I seek them out, so you are right in one sense. But I also like Crime films that don't have those elements also. The more you watch them the more you look for those elements and see the the similarities, the homages, or the combination of elements in new ways that make something new/unique. Some have enough of them to tip/tune Noir for me. It's like a visual + dark story + style combo that has enough of the elements to flip it noir, it's subjective.

It's like Zodiac Not only a great film but I think its a great Neo Noir. Sort of an amalgam of Police Procedurals like M (1931), He Walked by Night (1948), The Naked City (1948), The Blue Lamp (1950) The Big Heat (1953) and a Newspaper Noirs like Scandal Sheet (1952), Call Northside 777 (1948), Naked City (1948) etc., etc., with a lot of style.

[moorman]

I saw this on Criterion.  It was better than expected.  The plot is a well worn plot, but the casting and nuance in the plot gave it some intrigue.  As far as whether this is a Film Noir or not, its really subjective.  Genres can blend.  I consider a lot of the American Classic Gangster Films as being both Film Noir and Gangster.  A lot of Classic American Films that are not clearly Film Noir, have Film Noir elements.   The word "noir" means "black", so FILM BLACK? Does it REALLY mean ANY film with a dark element from a particular time period with common elements?   

Clash by Night, 6 out of 10.

[titoli]

Is Biciyle Thieves a noir? There's a crime already in the title. And The Trial? There's no crime there. But there's a trial. Or maybe a sort of crime at the end.

[dave jenkins]

Is Biciyle Thieves a noir? There's a crime already in the title. And The Trial? There's no crime there. But there's a trial. Or maybe a sort of crime at the end.

The crime is that Joseph K. exists.

If you don't like that response, take it up with Kafka.