Archival footage of Leone directing the French dub

[Novecento]

As part of a French interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgramxuvfVo

The dubbing is by Jean-Pierre Duclos for Coburn's role.

One interesting point is at the 0:54 mark where Leone confirms that DYS is the second part of a trilogy of which the 3rd part will be OUATIA. Evidently the notion of a trilogy was not something he just came up with at a later date.

[noodles_leone]

Wow. Great stuff.

Also, it's the first evidence that Leone actually supervised the French dubbing of his films: I've often read that fact but wasn't sure about it. The top notch quality of the French versions is now explained once and for all.

[dave jenkins]

One interesting point is at the 0:54 mark where Leone confirms that DYS is the second part of a trilogy of which the 3rd part will be OUATIA. Evidently the notion of a trilogy was not something he just came up with at a later date.

Yeah, but tell me, was DYS part of "the trilogy" back when Leone was trying to get someone else to direct it? Would Leone have considered DYS the second film in "his trilogy" if it had been made by, say, Santi? Let's agree that Leone had wanted to make OUATIA for years, that he made concessions to the industry that resulted in OUATITW and DYS, and then, having made those films and still determined to launch his dream project, suddenly discovered he'd been planning a trilogy. How much later does "at a later date" have to be?

[noodles_leone]

Good point but who cares? Many autors discover they've made a trilogy in the final stages of the creation of the third book/movie/play. Planning has very little to do with anything here but if you really want to go down that road, well, the OUTIA that was planned at that time was very different from the once we got to see, so him being conscious he was working on a trilogy in 1971 may very well have influenced the final outcome. So I'd be with Novecento here: "at a later date" probably means "NOT while he was working on the trilogy".

I don't really get the discussion anyway since he could have said numerous times "THIS ISN'T A TRILOGY", it wouldn't have changed much... considering how these three movies work together, are different from the previous trilogy, and, you know, are a trilogy.

[stanton]

considering how these three movies work together, are different from the previous trilogy, and, you know, are a trilogy.

Really?

I think with GBU instead of DYS I have a better trilogy. (Once upon a Time in the Whatever)

[dave jenkins]

I don't really get the discussion anyway since he could have said numerous times "THIS ISN'T A TRILOGY", it wouldn't have changed much... considering how these three movies work together, are different from the previous trilogy, and, you know, are a trilogy.

No, they are not a trilogy, no matter at what point Leone thought they were. You can call them a trio or something else, but "trilogy" has very specific requirements (we've been through this in another thread). My point, which I have made on several occasions, is the Leone is entitled to his opinion, but that opinion is not in itself dispositive.

[dave jenkins]

I think with GBU instead of DYS I have a better trilogy. (Once upon a Time in the Whatever)

The three I would group together--I think I'd use the term triptych instead of trilogy--is GBU, DYS, and OUATIA. They are thematically similar, all having to do with betrayal among men and the consequences thereof. GBU treats the theme with humor, DYS takes the theme seriously, OUATIA presents it as something so profound as to be epistemologically damning. There is a steady advance in Leone's approach to the idea--he ups the stakes with each of the succeeding films.

OUATITW is an outlier, unlike anything else in the Leone corpus. Leone's self-conscious use of archetypes makes the film not merely a compendium of all other Westerns; it is a film that takes its own "filmness" as its subject. Leone could not have created it simply by using his patented technique. He had divest himself of all technique, then appropriate to himself everything with which cinema could afford one. In the process, of course, he re-appropriated his own signature style, but a style now presented in quotation marks. He quoted the Westerns of Ford, Hawks, Daves, Aldrich, Ray . . . and those of Sergio Leone. Such a move allowed Leone to use genre to transcend genre. It is the only time Leone ever did that.  Thus, it is his only Postmodern film.

[Novecento]

In other news, there's some awesome footage of Leone supervising the French dubbing of DYS 

[stanton]

The three I would group together--I think I'd use the term triptych instead of trilogy--is GBU, DYS, and OUATIA. They are thematically similar, all having to do with betrayal among men and the consequences thereof. GBU treats the theme with humor, DYS takes the theme seriously, OUATIA presents it as something so profound as to be epistemologically damning. There is a steady advance in Leone's approach to the idea--he ups the stakes with each of the succeeding films.

OUATITW is an outlier, unlike anything else in the Leone corpus. Leone's self-conscious use of archetypes makes the film not merely a compendium of all other Westerns; it is a film that takes its own "filmness" as its subject. Leone could not have created it simply by using his patented technique. He had divest himself of all technique, then appropriate to himself everything with which cinema could afford one. In the process, of course, he re-appropriated his own signature style, but a style now presented in quotation marks. He quoted the Westerns of Ford, Hawks, Daves, Aldrich, Ray . . . and those of Sergio Leone. Such a move allowed Leone to use genre to transcend genre. It is the only time Leone ever did that.  Thus, it is his only Postmodern film.

My Name Is Nobody?

[noodles_leone]

Yes, MNIN, but also FOD, FAFDM, GBU, OUATITW, DYS and OUATIA are all post modern films. I agree though, OUATITW is the most post modern one.

Anyway, Leone's only true trilogy is Ben Hur-CoR-MNIN. Some say it's a quadrilogy but I would't include The Bicyle Thief.

[stanton]

Yes, MNIN, but also FOD, FAFDM, GBU, OUATITW, DYS and OUATIA are all post modern films. I agree though, OUATITW is the most post modern one.

Yes, all of Leone's westerns have a post modern approach towards the genre, the SW in general has that.

Anyway, Leone's only true trilogy is Ben Hur-CoR-MNIN. Some say it's a quadrilogy but I would't include The Bicyle Thief.

You forgot The Last Days of Pompeji, and that confirms us a great truth, trilogies in four parts are always the best.

[noodles_leone]

Yes, all of Leone's westerns have a post modern approach towards the genre, the SW in general has that.
You forgot The Last Days of Pompeji, and that confirms us a great truth, trilogies in four parts are always the best.

 
I always forget The Last Days of Pompeji.


Back to Novecento's link: I really hope you guys can understand some kind of French because the directions Leone gives Jean-Pierre Duclos are precise and precious.

[drinkanddestroy]

Re: post-modernism: OUATITW was Leone's homage to the Western, with references to American Western films.OUATIA was his homage to the gangster movie, with references to American gangster films. Frayling discusses this in STDWD, in his chapter on OUATIA http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10253.msg168004#msg168004

[noodles_leone]

Of course. But My Name Is Nobody is (also) about the relationship between classic Hollywood western films and the modern SW, as is FFDM.
FoD and GBU are less openly/directly post modern but like Stanton said, like many SW, they're also so self conscious and genre conscious than we're still deep into post modern territory.
DYS is the weird one, but the beginning is exactly as genre conscious as the previous ones, and is often even a direct response to Leone's earlier body of work.

That being said, to me, the link between the 3 "Once Upon A Time" films apart from being all called "Once Upon A Time" is the American Dream:

- how mythologic it is
- how disappointing it is
- how romantic/fascinating it is anyway

[dave jenkins]

Back to Novecento's link: I really hope you guys can understand some kind of French because the directions Leone gives Jean-Pierre Duclos are precise and precious.

Uh, yeah. Thanks for all the help. Asshole.