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: Sight & Sound Polls 2022  ( 2678 )
Novecento
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« #15 : December 06, 2022, 07:41:02 PM »

No reason you should, unless you enjoy the cinematic equivalent of watching paint dry.


The write up on the S&S website is interesting:

Quote
It rigorously records her domestic routine in extended time and from a fixed camera position

Why would someone waste the cinematic medium by keeping the camera fixed the whole time? Might I also assume that there is no brilliant editing either?

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« #16 : December 07, 2022, 01:35:43 AM »

To get a very special intensity?

Several great films do things like this.


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« #17 : December 07, 2022, 02:31:25 AM »

Yeah, tons of terrific examples of camera not moving at all. In fiction as well as in documentary. The philosophy behind the fixed camera is staying close to the medium's origins: the cinematograph was supposed to record reality. I personally tend to be more partial to a more expressive kind of filmmaking but that does't mean I'm gonna close the door to all the geniuses that work in another direction.


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« #18 : December 07, 2022, 06:27:27 AM »

To me, cinema without camera movement and editing (I?m adding that in) is just a stage play. Granted, one at a very specific angle as if all viewers are in the same seat with the same lighting effects as a controlled photograph.

So, go ahead and name a few ?great? examples. Maybe you can convince me otherwise. I might even have seen them ?

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« #19 : December 07, 2022, 08:13:48 AM »

On top of my mind:

- The extended shot in the middle of Hunger (I haven't watched the following video but it seems to be talking about that shot and other static shots in McQueen's filmmography https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYY0tsv2ioY)
- Many shots in most of Frederick Wiseman's documentaries
- That one scene in Haneke's Cach? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aolQ1J4xAZ4
- That one scene in Ida https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7elB8NGZjg
- Most violent scenes in Une Vie Violente by Thierry De Peretti
- Anything Roy Andersson, which, unarguably, always has some kind of theater play feel BUT I would never go see anything like this on stage and I find it particularly powerful on screen. That one scene is a masterpiece, I could very well be sitting at the same place as the camera in a theater watchign it play live on stage and I would not have the same experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX87rVZ0Vag
- Back to documentaries and the birth of cinema(tograph): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo_eZuOTBNc isn't this pure cinema? Where the artist is seemingly erased from the equation and where the camera is just capturing reality.
- There is a scene in Godard's Weekend (which isn't a good movie) where 2 people make a big political monologue each. The way it's shot is: the camera stays still, in close up, on the one who isn't talking. It lasts for a few minutes. What a terrific cinematic idea it is.
- A scene that doesn't exist: 1917 wasn't a great war movie. Now wouldn't you want to watch a WW1 movie shot in one extended shot where the camera stays still in a trench, and we see soldiers waiting for 90min before the assault, and the camera stays there until only a few of them come back from the assault? Wouldn't that be a better film?

(The fact that the extended static shots work so well with violence tells me a case could be made about how unethical/bullshit any other choice can be when what you're filming something that matters.)

Now I highly suggest you give a shot to Las hijas de Abril by Michel Franco (or anything by Franco from what I understand but that's the only one I have seen) and you will see a movie where:
- most of the scenes are told in a single extended shot
- most of those shots don't move (some do, and they're even better when they do, it opens up the shot, it densifies it, so I'm not arguing for "never move the camera"... but the best shots of the movie always start still and then move after at least a minute, and it's more of a pan that creates another shot, so it's more of 2 or 3 shots stiched together by clever mise en scene)
- about a quarter of the shots would deserve to be on a "best shot of the year/decade" list
- you can actually remember most of the shots the day after seeing the movie

By the way, I know where you're coming from and I'm 100% sure you're very wrong about the way you're rejecting the other school of filmmaking. It's one thing to show how camera moves are powerful, fascinating, a huge strength of that medium, it's another one to close one's mind/eyes to so many greatness, powerfulness and intelligence at the other end of the spectrum. Same thing about the editing: of course it's easy to show how amazing and pureley cinematic editing can be. Yet we all know that when we're watching a good extended shot (i'm talking about an extended shot where you can see the DoP masturbating), we're watching something that has to do with the essence of cinema. I'm just trying to make you open your second eye, not close your first.

« : December 07, 2022, 11:35:02 AM noodles_leone »

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« #20 : December 07, 2022, 04:54:09 PM »

Hold on. I?m not talking about individual scenes with a static camera. Nothing wrong with that at all. I?m talking about a static camera throughout. That is surely missing the point of the medium.

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« #21 : December 07, 2022, 05:07:24 PM »

I?ll check out some of the examples you shared.

I think I need to watch Tokyo Story again. I watched it when I was young and didn?t appreciate it much, but maybe I?ll find more to appreciate in my dotage (ok so I?m not that old at all)

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« #22 : December 08, 2022, 12:31:48 AM »

This list is an absolute joke. When all is said and done the killing of George Floyd will turn out to be one of the single most significant moments in the history of western civilization, as far as how much the world changed after that. So an asshole cop in Minneapolis wrongfully kills somebody and now we have a S&S list that is horseshit. Oh well, fuck lists. I still know what the greatest movies are, regardless of what a bunch of woke non-binary creeps want me to think. Fuck them. And I have the classics on BRD/DVD so they can never take them away from me :)


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« #23 : December 08, 2022, 12:45:53 AM »

This list is an absolute joke. When all is said and done the killing of George Floyd will turn out to be one of the single most significant moments in the history of western civilization, as far as how much the world changed after that. So an asshole cop in Minneapolis wrongfully kills somebody and now we have a S&S list that is horseshit. Oh well, fuck lists. I still know what the greatest movies are, regardless of what a bunch of woke non-binary creeps want me to think. Fuck them. And I have the classics on BRD/DVD so they can never take them away from me :)
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« #24 : December 08, 2022, 01:31:51 AM »

What will you do when they turn off your electricity?

Elon Musk will invent a technology to make it work


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« #25 : December 08, 2022, 08:22:42 AM »

This list is an absolute joke.

Which one? The directors' list is very much what you would expect. The critics list is VERY similar, you're just pissed off about the very first and the very last spots on that list. I haven't seen Jeanne Dielman, so I'm mostly pissed off about Portrait of a Lady on Fire being on the list (as #30, despite being both a mediocre movie and a mediocre feminist movie), pretty sure I can live with that.


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« #26 : December 08, 2022, 08:28:27 AM »

Hold on. I?m not talking about individual scenes with a static camera. Nothing wrong with that at all. I?m talking about a static camera throughout. That is surely missing the point of the medium.

Ok, but still. I probably don't have the culture to find so many great examples, but as individual scenes work, I don't see how a more radical movie which only consists of such scenes couldn't be a masterpiece. Art is sometimes more defined by what you don't do rather than what you do.

I?ll check out some of the examples you shared.

I think I need to watch Tokyo Story again. I watched it when I was young and didn?t appreciate it much, but maybe I?ll find more to appreciate in my dotage (ok so I?m not that old at all)

I have to dive into Ozu one of these day. Really, if you can check out anything by Michel Franco I think it will open your mind a bit. Even if you end up disliking his movies (once again I've only seen one of them) but you'll see how great (and cinematic) cinema can be with mostly static shots. I can assure that you won't dislike the fact that the camera doesn't move.


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« #27 : December 08, 2022, 08:55:59 AM »

Which one? The directors' list is very much what you would expect. The critics list is VERY similar, you're just pissed off about the very first and the very last spots on that list. I haven't seen Jeanne Dielman, so I'm mostly pissed off about Portrait of a Lady on Fire being on the list (as #30, despite being both a mediocre movie and a mediocre feminist movie), pretty sure I can live with that.

There are films on this list only because they are about racism or feminism. It?s about s woke agenda, not the best movies. Hence its meaningless


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« #28 : December 08, 2022, 09:15:18 AM »

There are films on this list only because they are about racism or feminism. It?s about s woke agenda, not the best movies. Hence its meaningless

I understood that, but seriously, how many of them?


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« #29 : December 08, 2022, 11:33:19 AM »

I understood that, but seriously, how many of them?

It doesn?t matter. When a few get on for that obvious reason, it automatically downgrades others and makes the list suspect.

One example: Rio Bravo is now off the list. Is it because John Wayne movie explicitly against High Noon is not acceptable for the BLM crowd?


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