JOHN WAYNE.....

[Belkin]

JOHN WAYNE made this movie as a reaction to what movie. Name both?

[cigar joe]

Rio Bravo, it was in reaction to High Noon which Wayne considered un-American.

[Belkin]

Rio Bravo, it was in reaction to High Noon which Wayne considered un-American.

Spot on! Am opening GUINNESS in your honor, sir! 

[grandpa_chum]

unamerican?... if someone could explain how anyone could see high noon as unamerican let me know.

[cigar joe]

From "The Life and Times of the Western Movie" Jay Hyams (1983 W.H. Smith)

It was in an interview in Playboy (May, 1971) he said High Noon was "the most un-American thing I've ever seen in my whole life.... I'll never regret having helped run Foreman out of the country". Nice guy huh?

Any way Howard Hawks agreed with Wayne, both thought the premis of High Noon was ridiculous. They believed that no marshall would expect towns people to help fight outlaws and no citizens of the old West, tough conquerors of the frontier, would have refused to if asked. They also dislikede 3:10 to Yuma. They didn't like its treatment of heroism, and they thought the outlaws taunting of his farmer-captor could have been esily hanndeled.

So they made Rio Bravo

[almulock]

Beong

[Huey]

From "The Life and Times of the Western Movie" Jay Hyams (1983 W.H. Smith)

It was in an interview in Playboy (May, 1971) he said High Noon was "the most un-American thing I've ever seen in my whole life.... I'll never regret having helped run Foreman out of the country". Nice guy huh?

Any way Howard Hawks agreed with Wayne, both thought the premis of High Noon was ridiculous. They believed that no marshall would expect towns people to help fight outlaws and no citizens of the old West, tough conquerors of the frontier, would have refused to if asked. They also dislikede 3:10 to Yuma. They didn't like its treatment of heroism, and they thought the outlaws taunting of his farmer-captor could have been esily hanndeled.

So they made Rio Bravo

Which was not as good as either of the other two.

I suppose Wayne thought Soldier Blue was also "un-American"?
 

[cigar joe]

I suppose Wayne thought Soldier Blue was also "un-American"?

Probably 

[Groggy]

Wayne's entitled to his opinion.  Just because he didn't spout off rote liberal mantra like 90% of Hollywood doesn't mean he was a bad actor, a racist, or an idiot.  If you actually do any reading about him, he was anything but.  Yes, he loved his country.  WTF is wrong with that?  He had a damn good reason to be bitter towards the Communists, as they sent guys to assassinate him on at least two occasions.  I don't agree with everything he believed in, but the fact that you're trying to paint him as the incarnation of evil just because he didn't like certain films is beyond the pale.

[Egdor]

I don’t really see how 90 per cent of Hollywood ‘spouts off liberal mantra’. I don’t want to turn this into a political flamewar, but loving your country is a pretty sorry excuse for boasting about having chased an innocent screenwriter out of your country. And what kind of sweeping generalization is this, anyway:

He had a damn good reason to be bitter towards the Communists, as they sent guys to assassinate him on at least two occasions.

Sounds as if all the communists in the world or communism itself is responsible for trying to kill him. No one ever claimed he wasn’t entitled to his opinions. And it was definitely never suggested that anyone was ‘trying to paint him as the incarnation of evil’. Making comments about him not necessarily being a bad actor, racist or an idiot because of his points of view is completely beside the point. The amount of liberal mantra he was responsible for spouting off is in no way proportional to his acting skills, I agree. He might have been a decent actor and an anti-racist, but he was an idiot notwithstanding.

[Groggy]

Mao and Stalin personally ordered attempts on Wayne's life on separate occasions (both times the would-be assassins were apprehended so it isn't just a conspiracy theory), because his anti-Communist views were supposedly a threat to the stability of their respective countries.  Also American Communists, acting on their own accord threatened him and stalked his family on a number of occasions.  So yeah, I think his hatred of Communism had a good reason.  Then again, seeing as I'm a guy who finds it hard to excuse an ideology that is responsible for the deaths of 150,000,000 people in the last ninety years, I'm a bit biased. 

And in any case (and more on topic), "Rio Bravo" is at least as good, if not better, than "High Noon".  I don't honestly give a s*** about its political viewpoints; if I did, I would DETEST "The Wild Bunch" and "Once Upon A Time In The West", among many of my other favorite films.  "3:10 To Yuma" I've not seen, so I can't pass judgment.

[visitor]

Mao and Stalin personally ordered attempts on Wayne's life on separate occasions (both times the would-be assassins were apprehended so it isn't just a conspiracy theory), because his anti-Communist views were supposedly a threat to the stability of their respective countries.  Also American Communists, acting on their own accord threatened him and stalked his family on a number of occasions.  So yeah, I think his hatred of Communism had a good reason.  Then again, seeing as I'm a guy who finds it hard to excuse an ideology that is responsible for the deaths of 150,000,000 people in the last ninety years, I'm a bit biased. 

And in any case (and more on topic), "Rio Bravo" is at least as good, if not better, than "High Noon".  I don't honestly give a s*** about its political viewpoints; if I did, I would DETEST "The Wild Bunch" and "Once Upon A Time In The West", among many of my other favorite films.  "3:10 To Yuma" I've not seen, so I can't pass judgment.

HIGH NOON vs RIO BRAVO - unfair to be forced to choose. One is a drama in  a western setting; the other an old-fashioned shoot em up. I LIKE both, and LEONE obviously did too as you can see cribs from both films in his material(three men waiting at the train station, one playing a HARMONICA - the music only opening to RIO BRAVO, the deguello, Wayne and Martin stalking down opposite sides of the street a la Eastwood/ Wallach)

And if Wayne was that bad, why was he the only one in H'Wood that'd hire that left wing pot smokin'  loose cannon Dennis Hopper(who loved him).

[Egdor]

Mao and Stalin personally ordered attempts on Wayne's life on separate occasions (both times the would-be assassins were apprehended so it isn't just a conspiracy theory), because his anti-Communist views were supposedly a threat to the stability of their respective countries.  Also American Communists, acting on their own accord threatened him and stalked his family on a number of occasions.  So yeah, I think his hatred of Communism had a good reason.  Then again, seeing as I'm a guy who finds it hard to excuse an ideology that is responsible for the deaths of 150,000,000 people in the last ninety years, I'm a bit biased. 

And in any case (and more on topic), "Rio Bravo" is at least as good, if not better, than "High Noon".  I don't honestly give a s*** about its political viewpoints; if I did, I would DETEST "The Wild Bunch" and "Once Upon A Time In The West", among many of my other favorite films.  "3:10 To Yuma" I've not seen, so I can't pass judgment.

Mao and Stalin were both dictators of totalitarian single-party states, a concept that has no root in communism. I’ve read quite a few biographies on Stalin and have come to the conclusion that, although he might be considered a Marxist, his methods were entirely un-Marxist. He is known to have said, ‘Death solves all problems: no man, no problem.’ I think that quite covers the way he operated.

Wherever you got the 150,000,000 number from, I’m somewhat struck by the assertion that an ideology can be held responsible for anything at all. Surely the men behind the ideology, or those who commit actions in its name, must be held responsible. I can see why the Duke must have been skeptical toward commies, though.  I just hope the United States have moved on from the ridiculous tendencies they were showing in the fifties and sixties, or I pity them. But then again, I’m someone who finds it hard to excuse an ideology that is responsible for war, famine and poverty, so I might perhaps be a little biased. 

I like John wayne films, though. And I love both High Noon and Rio Bravo.

[visitor]

Edgor states, somewhat  as an apologist for communism that "Mao and Stalin were both dictators of totalitarian single-party states, a concept that has no root in communism. I’ve read quite a few biographies on Stalin and have come to the conclusion that, although he might be considered a Marxist, his methods were entirely un-Marxist. He is known to have said, ‘Death solves all problems: no man, no problem.’ I think that quite covers the way he operated.

Wherever you got the 150,000,000 number from, I’m somewhat struck by the assertion that an ideology can be held responsible for anything at all. Surely the men behind the ideology, or those who commit actions in its name, must be held responsible. "

That's akin to a citizen of the USA saying Republicans are not playing the race card because Lincoln was a Republican.

....what a load of dung. As leaders of communist  run countries, they were also communist  party leaders. If not,  then they would never have gotten their posts.

[Groggy]

Thanks for backing me up, visitor, but I think we'd better stop before we get an all-out flame war going here.

But then again, I’m someone who finds it hard to excuse an ideology that is responsible for war, famine and poverty, so I might perhaps be a little biased

You mean Communism, right? 

I have no respect for the ideology of Communism, any more than I do fascism, Nazism, or any other type of totalitarian government.  Obviously, I don't hate every single person who was a Communist, and certainly not every person who's left-leaning.  I will say that if an entertainer is left wing or even a Marxist, I don't give a crap as long as their films/music/whatever are entertaining.  Salvador Dali was a Franco-loving fascist, and he's my favorite artist.

And BTW, American "McCarthyism" cost some people their jobs in the movies, but that's about it.  Comparing it to the Ukranian famine, Holocaust, Soviet gulags or the Cultural Revolution in China is absolute B.S., no ifs, ands, or buts about it.  The people who fled to Europe were either cowards or guilty, or both.  Actor Albert Dekker (who was a leftist) gave the perfect response to "McCarthyism": after being blacklisted, he ignored McCarthy and went to work on the Broadway stage.  All he had to do was stay out of Hollywood, and he was left pretty well alone until it was "safe" to go back to Hollywood again.

I agree that Wayne's saying "High Noon" was un-American is kinda dumb, and I think that he was a bit too ready to snap at anything with a possible left-wing bent.  It's not that I don't like "High Noon", I just take issue with it being one of the greatest Westerns of all time.  I certainly don't read anything particularly offensive into the plot, or anything much at all involving "left-wing" ideology.   It might be there, but you'd really have to look.