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| | |-+  shooter and shootee in same frame.....?
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: shooter and shootee in same frame.....?  ( 42171 )
drinkanddestroy
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« #45 : August 24, 2017, 07:32:58 AM »

I'm listening to an Interview Eastwood gave to a French radio station about 20 years ago, where he talks about it. He says they weren't allowed to do it on Rawhide.

The list of things they couldn't do on Rawhide that Leone could do (because he was "an unkown Italian") is shortly after the 1 hour 38 minutes mark in the podcast:

https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/les-nuits-de-france-culture/clint-eastwood-jai-ete-lhomme-de-nulle-part-pendant-45-ans
 

Eastwood mentions this frequently. Is it possible that it was a TV rule rather than a movie rule? Then again, as noted above, Arthur Penn clearly says it was a rule under the "studio system." So at some point, the rule did apply to movies as well;  perhaps television was more strict in enforcing it, or perhaps the rule was followed in television long after movies had stopped following it.


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« #46 : April 04, 2018, 12:11:12 PM »

A video by Firecracker that busts this myth with several pre-1964 examples of shooter and shootee in the same frame:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj0gc9e6Qbc



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« #47 : April 04, 2018, 01:15:21 PM »

Excellent!  O0 O0 O0



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« #48 : April 04, 2018, 01:22:44 PM »

well that takes care of that..... O0


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« #49 : April 05, 2018, 03:49:20 AM »

So, if it ever was a rule in American cinema, it was already broken in the mid 30s.


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« #50 : April 05, 2018, 07:01:11 AM »

s it possible that it was a TV rule rather than a movie rule? Then again, as noted above, Arthur Penn clearly says it was a rule under the "studio system." So at some point, the rule did apply to movies as well;  perhaps television was more strict in enforcing it, or perhaps the rule was followed in television long after movies had stopped following it.

That's probably the gist of it.

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« #51 : April 05, 2018, 10:57:31 AM »

That's probably the gist of it.

However some of the clips were from TV Westerns.


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« #52 : April 05, 2018, 11:40:48 AM »

It probably was never a rule.


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« #53 : April 05, 2018, 12:02:03 PM »

Industry Standards and Practices could be augmented by the desires of individual sponsors. A sponsor might signal that it wanted a low-violence Western and the client would accede to this by doing any number of things (including separating shooter and shootee in shots). Such a practice would then become a "rule" for that show only.

I just made this up, but it sounds plausible to me.



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« #54 : April 05, 2018, 12:39:33 PM »

Industry Standards and Practices could be augmented by the desires of individual sponsors. A sponsor might signal that it wanted a low-violence Western and the client would accede to this by doing any number of things (including separating shooter and shootee in shots). Such a practice would then become a "rule" for that show only.

I just made this up, but it sounds plausible to me.

indubitably....


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« #55 : April 05, 2018, 07:11:18 PM »

It probably was never a rule.

It was probably one of those "unwritten rules" - not mandatory but often expected

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« #56 : April 06, 2018, 02:15:01 AM »

It was probably one of those "unwritten rules" - not mandatory but often expected

If there were written or unwritten rules, they surely were made in the Hays Code Days. But if cheap westerns had then already broken them in 1935, I doubt that that was ever really a rule. The funny question is now if Rawhide also contains scenes which contradict ole Clint.


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« #57 : April 06, 2018, 04:37:29 AM »

The funny question is now if Rawhide also contains scenes which contradict ole Clint.
That would be the clincher, but I'm guessing "No."



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« #58 : April 06, 2018, 07:00:31 AM »

A video by Firecracker that busts this myth with several pre-1964 examples of shooter and shootee in the same frame:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj0gc9e6Qbc

I think Eastwood was talking about Rawhide guidelines.

Watched the YouTube video, and by the way, the clip from Man Who Shot Liberty Valance shows apparent shooter Jimmy Stewart shooting Lee Marvin, not real shooter Wayne.

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« #59 : April 08, 2018, 06:31:01 AM »

With TV it's different. The broadcaster has no control on who is viewing the material so consideration needs to be given to what time of day the item is being shown, whether the the channel is open to the public or private and the broadcaster's own standards.

Hmmmm - "great dad" Lucas McCain killed about 160 guys in 5 seasons of Rifleman !!!  Poor Mark had to be warped to accept this !

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