Film-Noir Discussion/DVD Review Thread

[cigar joe]

Robert Osborne: "What's your favorite film noir movie?"

Muller: In a Lonely Place -- which a lot of people don't even consider to be film noir! -- but I just think that's an absolute masterpiece.

Osborne: Out of the Past is it for me.

Muller: Well that'sdefinitive. I would say that's the definitive film noir, [though] not necessarily my favorite.

For me off the top of my head probably either The Narrow Margin, The Big Combo, or Kiss of Death

[drinkanddestroy]

For me off the top of my head probably either The Narrow Margin, The Big Combo, or Kiss of Death

for me, the clear #1 is Ace in the Hole, (which, as I've discused extesively in the past, I dont even think its noir in any way shape or form) that movie is one of my 10  non-Westerns ever (I split my "lists" between Westerns and non-Westerns).

After that, my 3 faves are probably, in order:  Out of the Past, Sunset Blvd., and In a Lonely Place.
A small notch below is The Woman in the Window, The Postman Always Rings Twice

As far as neo-noirs go, I loved Body Heat

I thought The Narrow Margin was a terrible movie
Kiss of Death was a decent movie, I think I gave it a 7.5/10 when I saw it

It has what is perhaps Richard Widmark's most famous performance, his most famous scene, and one of the most famous scenes in noir history, when he throws the senior in the wheelchair down the stairs. And it has what is probably Victor Mature's second most famous role, (after My Darling Clementine) But overall, I didn't think the movie was a classic

I haven't seen The Big Combo yet

[dave jenkins]

Robert Osborne: "What's your favorite film noir movie?"
Muller: In a Lonely Place -- which a lot of people don't even consider to be film noir! -- but I just think that's an absolute masterpiece.

This is so lazy on Osborne's part. Muller's Top 25 have been up on the web for years: http://www.eddiemuller.com/top25noir.html

[drinkanddestroy]

This is so lazy on Osborne's part. Muller's Top 25 have been up on the web for years: http://www.eddiemuller.com/top25noir.html

and I am sure he knew the answer already and had discussed it with Muller. The purpose of these discussions before/after a movie are for the audience's sake, for people who haven't read Muller's list

[drinkanddestroy]

After watching the "Night in Noir City" program with Eddie Muller, here are my ratings for the 4 movies (I've previously seen one one, 99 River Street)

Cry Danger 6/10

99 River Street 7.5/10

Tomorrow is Another Day 7.5/10

The Breaking Point 7.5/10


I discussed each film more extensively in its individual thread.

[dave jenkins]

Noir City 2013 comes to Seattle! http://www.siff.net/cinema/seriesDetail.aspx?FID=326

I've always wanted to see High Tide. The 3D noirs could be fun. Repeat Performance is more Twilight Zone than noir, but I haven't seen it for 30 years (it was on TV one afternoon) and the new restored print could be worth checking out. Oh well, it doesn't matter anyway, I'm not around to go!

[dave jenkins]

LEAVE HER TO HEAVEN (1945) BLU-RAY - May 14th

Twilight Time is bringing this out, so the production run (by contract) is limited to 3,000 units. When they're gone, they're gone. I have seen the restored Technicolor version of this film, and the colors are electric. I'll be getting a copy for sure.

[titoli]

Conflict (1945) Though the beginning is too talky and the end predictable, what's in between, based on rather worn tricks, keeps your attention mainly because Bogart is at his best ( I saw the movie dubbed: so I can't judge about Greenstreet's performance). Probably you wouldn't want to watch it again, but it's worth a look. 7\10

[cigar joe]

Conflict (1945) Though the beginning is too talky and the end predictable, what's in between, based on rather worn tricks, keeps your attention mainly because Bogart is at his best ( I saw the movie dubbed: so I can't judge about Greenstreet's performance). Probably you wouldn't want to watch it again, but it's worth a look. 7\10

I think I've seen it but it's been a while or it didn't make an impression.

[dave jenkins]

Lang's Ministry of Fear on Blu: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/dvdreviews32/ministry_of_fear.htm

Definitely intend to get a copy.

[drinkanddestroy]

Conflict (1945) Though the beginning is too talky and the end predictable, what's in between, based on rather worn tricks, keeps your attention mainly because Bogart is at his best ( I saw the movie dubbed: so I can't judge about Greenstreet's performance). Probably you wouldn't want to watch it again, but it's worth a look. 7\10

when you see noir that doesn't have its own thread in the Noir Index... then create one! (and email the the link to CJ who will add it to the index). That way, we'll have threads for every noir, not just the ones that CJ or I see  

[cigar joe]

At the beginning of WWII the New York Times tagged an assortment of comparable themed films that were released by Hollywood as belonging to a “red meat crime cycle” (before French critics coined the term Film Noir), in retrospect it was probably the more realistic catch all term for the films we all love.

I’m coming around to this view, we have have this:

Films Noir to Soleil, films of the sun, those sun baked, filled with light Noirs, and all the spectrum between, with your typical alienated and obsessive characters, that also run in quality from excellent to poor on a vertical axis, think say on the Noir Pole the difference between The Crooked Way (excellent) and Storm Warning (eh)

On the Soleil Pole, Detour, Jeopardy, & The Hitch-Hiker (good to excellent) and say the The Scarf (eh).

In the Middle you have the rest shot in traditional Hollywood style with linear storylines.

My latest thoughts in graphic mode 

[drinkanddestroy]

I think that basically every black n' white crime drama made during the noir period (roughly from The Maltese Falcon till the late 50's) has now just been called a noir.
 Take one movie I just saw, The Lineup (1958). It's a crime drama from that period (albeit the end of that period), in the bright sunshine, no particularly "dark, shady" stuff in the noir sense. There's this one very early scene inside the apartment of a murder victim, the apartment looks like a typical "noir" crummy apartment, rickety bed, paint peeling, dingy room with one light bulb, etc. But other than that, there is nothing at all that should be called "noir" or "red meat" or whatever. If the exact same movie had been made ten years later, nobody would even think to call it a "neo noir." There's nothing 'noir" about it. Ditto with my favorite example of phony noir, Ace in the Hole," one of the greatest movies of all-time but  IMO no more a noir than is A Fistful of Dollars.

Of course, not every noir has to have as much clearly shadowy scenes/stylistics as, say, I wake Up Screaming, Where the Sidewalk Ends, or Murder, My Sweet;. I can accept the idea that some noirs take place in bright sunshine, but they have noir characteristics in areas other than the visuals, for example, Cry Danger. It clearly has something stylistically, in the characters and settings, that distinguishes it fro other crime dramas.
 But that's the point:  there should be something to distinguish it from other crime dramas, and that "something" can't simply be the fact that the movie was made during the 40's or 50's. (To the extent that labels do mean anything and are worth discussing and defining) If just about every black n' white crime drama from the 40's and 50's is going to be called "noir," that would render the term meaningless.

---------------------------

How about an alternate proposal: let's say a noir should be clearly a noir, "you shouldn't have to call it a noir, it should call itself," so to speak; it should be blatant, like Murder, My Sweet or Where the Sidewalk Ends. As for the others, they should be called "noir influenced" or "semi noir," referred to in the same way that people refer to No Country for Old Men, Red Rock West  or Blood Simple as a "Western"

[cigar joe]

You are right there is nothing visually Noir about The Lineup

You obviously are not understanding the above, New York Times tagged an assortment of comparable themed "B"  films as belonging to a “red meat crime cycle” there was no NOIR

Again.......At the beginning of WWII the New York Times tagged an assortment of comparable themed films that were released by Hollywood as belonging to a “red meat crime cycle” (before French critics coined the term Film Noir for the films of this cycle that were stylistically dark and in doing so saddled us with the term Film Noir ), in retrospect “red meat crime cycle” was probably the more realistic catch all term for all these cheap crime films light to dark.

The Times was calling them all just "crime" films, "red meat" signifying cheap "B" films, from Ace In The Hole to The Wrong Man light to dark, so EVERY cheap
black n' white crime drama from the 40's and 50's is going to be called a part of the RED MEAT CRIME CYCLE. So we are essentially on the same page.

[drinkanddestroy]

CJ, can you name a black-and-white crime drama from the 40's or 50's that is not a noir?