The Football Thread

[titoli]

This is what this Beckham business was all about:

http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSL0923070020071110

Actually, without the rasta look, he had got me perplexed for a moment.

[titoli]

It seems like the english contributors took up their time about how Euro 2008 would turn up for them before rising this thread agin. Do we want to freshen up things or still wait until next Wed.? It seems like the english fans are just like the italian fans and, probably, football fans everywhere. The story they wrote (in forums and blogs) with these qualifiers I saw it so many times... And it's fun how the McClaren story is debated in the same way as Donadoni's. 

[Banjo]

It seems like the english contributors took up their time about how Euro 2008 would turn up for them before rising this thread agin. Do we want to freshen up things or still wait until next Wed.? It seems like the english fans are just like the italian fans and, probably, football fans everywhere. The story they wrote (in forums and blogs) with these qualifiers I saw it so many times... And it's fun how the McClaren story is debated in the same way as Donadoni's. 

Yes England are extremely fortunate the way it turned out yesterday by Israel scraping a win in the last minute against Russia against the run of the play i hear,and also unbelievably  Croatia going down 2-0 to Macedonia.England only need a draw now against Croatia at Wembley but as has proved again and again so far you can't take anything for granted under McClarens regime.

Theres been much talk in the last week about the national team suffering because of the huge amount of foreign players who currently outnumber English players by 2:1 in the Premiership.Thankfully it seems that FIFA president Sepp Blatter is looking into introducing quotas which i think makes sense because England only have to lose a couple of key players like Owen or Rooney and we're looking like a reserve team as theres so little else to pick from in our top league.

I understand Titoli that Italy used to have a maximum quota of 2 foreign players.Whats the situation like in Seria A now?   

[titoli]

Yes, there's a block for non-communitarian players but with many of these players coming from argentina and brasil you have lots of them having a double passport. So you have a team like Inter having almost only foreign players. And they riled at Blatter's words but I think it's only fair to have a side playing with players of the nation where the club is located. Celtic Glasgow won in 1967 the then called Champions Cup with a team composed of players born within a radius of 30 miles. (Against Inter, btw). Now it is impossible to have that again: but AS Roma, f.e., which can't compete with the richest clubs, draws many outstanding players grown in its junior teams (top-players like Totti, De Rossi, Aquilani and even the Robinson-like gk Curci are roman-born and AS Roma raised) and always took care to have at least a relevant inside raised player in the starting team. Mind, I wouldn't like a team like Bilbao made up only of local players but  I don't like so many foreign players playing in european teams: you know how many brasilian players are playing abroad? 2500! That just can't be. We have a national team made-up (with one exception) of italian  players (very different from England and France teams) and I like it like that: I don't care to win with a team you don't know what it stands for.

Anyway, the big debate in England is whether McClaren has to stay anyway or drop him off before Euro 2008, for an expert substitute like Mourinho or Scolari or an english one. What is your opinion? Mine is that he earned it (I'm sure you will abundantly make it next wed.) and has to stay. Football is a peculiar beast. As all football lovers know, almost every newspaper wanted Bearzot out after the test matches before Spain '82. Everybody wanted him out after the first round. And everybody knows how it ended up... 

[Banjo]

I agree despite it being touted as the "best league in the world" i have absolutely no interest whatsoever  in the Premiership because i can't relate to it as an "English" league anymore.

I agree about McClaren mainly because he seems to have the support of the players.Our recent form with all the various 3-0 wins has been encouraging.I never saw the defeat to Russia but i hear England played well in that game and were unlucky to lose.

[Banjo]

England 2 Croatia 3

Nightmare result last night,i didn't see the game as i was playing a pub gig but i heard the groans from the other bar.But i recorded the game and fast forwarded to the "highlights" when i got home and it was pretty humiliating stuff.Can't remember since we last conceded 3 goals at Wembley.

Well McClarens gone,there was no other way.I'm not holding my breath on who'll be his replacement as undoubtedly the FA fuddy duddys will plump for the usual uninspired yes man.The English public want Jose Mourinho but we never get who we want.Martin O'Neil would be another good choice but i wouldn't be surprised if he told the FA to get lost after being turned down in favour of McClaren last year.

Theres also again been a mass outcry against the majority of foreign players in the Premiership but it seems unlikely the FA will do anything.

Titoli apparently Fabio Capello,former manager of Roma,AC Milan and Real Madrid has expressed an interest.Any thoughts?

Anyway who do i want to win next years Euro's?  Someone thats never won it before so why not 
Croatia?

[titoli]

I saw the highlights too and England simply decided to suicide: how can you put a keeper with just one cap in a match like that? This is football ABC. I am in the wrong business, for sure.

Well, manager's choice  is an important step FA has to take. The first should be for them to resign and, like it happens everywhere, they won't.  So you want to take a new manager. To do what? I do not follow PL but it is apparent you need a reform from within of all the movement. I have the feeling that England is not marching in step with the evolution of football elsewhere, in spite of the clubs achievements in CL, the import of foreign players and managers. On the other hand, I like the way football is played in the isle, so it is a matter of choosing what one  wants.   

Capello was a great player (he scored for Italy in our first victory over England in 197...) and proved a good manager. But you should wonder why he was fired from Madrid some months ago after having won the Liga...He has a very factual attitude when he becomes a manager: he accepts to manage only a team which buys exactly the 3-4 players he wants. Now, England could buy players for his team? I think he would dissatisfy fans for the game he would let the side play: if the choice is Capello, then I'd rather take Eriksson back. What I hope for you is that you take an innovative manager but allowing him to have the team available for training most of the year.

[titoli]

Here's an interesting discussion on the next manager:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/11/22/why_england_should_give_capell.html

If it were me to choose I'd go with Klinsmann or Benitez. Capello (or Lippi), though, have a great advantage: they don't speak english yet.

[Banjo]

I saw the highlights too and England simply decided to suicide: how can you put a keeper with just one cap in a match like that? This is football ABC. I am in the wrong business, for sure.

Well, manager's choice  is an important step FA has to take. The first should be for them to resign and, like it happens everywhere, they won't.  So you want to take a new manager. To do what? I do not follow PL but it is apparent you need a reform from within of all the movement. I have the feeling that England is not marching in step with the evolution of football elsewhere, in spite of the clubs achievements in CL, the import of foreign players and managers. On the other hand, I like the way football is played in the isle, so it is a matter of choosing what one  wants.   

Capello was a great player (he scored for Italy in our first victory over England in 197...) and proved a good manager. But you should wonder why he was fired from Madrid some months ago after having won the Liga...He has a very factual attitude when he becomes a manager: he accepts to manage only a team which buys exactly the 3-4 players he wants. Now, England could buy players for his team? I think he would dissatisfy fans for the game he would let the side play: if the choice is Capello, then I'd rather take Eriksson back. What I hope for you is that you take an innovative manager but allowing him to have the team available for training most of the year.

Yes complete lunacy regarding the rookie goalkeeper,leaving experienced players like Beckham on the bench etc and i'm so glad i never sat through this whole debacle Wednesday night.

It seems that we have a choice of having the "best league in the world" with this huge influx of foreign players at the expense of a mediocre national team or introduce quotas in order to revert to a more "English" league obviously resulting in the PL being much less attractive to many fans.From messages i've read elsewhere many of the English public are less concerned about their national team than their clubs.Personally i like seeing great players like Drogba or Ronaldo but it would be enough for me to catch these in the CL or international competitions.

I guess there's probably too much money tied up in the PL for major changes to be made.

I don't know much about our "grass roots" system about nurturing young players but i hear but i hear compared to other European countries this is an area where we are sadly failing.So it seems
that if England are to regain their former standing amongst the worlds best then drastic measures have to be taken by the FA etc. Disturbingly during the news conference announcing McClarens sacking yesterday the FA speaker stated that "significant progress has been made" in the 16 months of McClarens reign.We are still waiting for details about what this progress is.

Actually its a shame that Eriksson  isn't in charge still as undoubtably we'd be playing in the finals
next year.He's currently performing miracles at Manchester City.

[Banjo]

Here's an interesting discussion on the next manager:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/11/22/why_england_should_give_capell.html

If it were me to choose I'd go with Klinsmann or Benitez. Capello (or Lippi), though, have a great advantage: they don't speak english yet.

Klinsmann is charismatic enough,and only today (an apparently disgruntled) Benitez hinted that he'd like the England job but i'm not sure how serious to take this.

Mourinho and O'Neill have already ruled themselves out.The prospect of either Rednapp or Coppell doesn't inspire me as all they've ever done is gain promotion or avoid relegation with lesser teams.We need a proven winner at the top levels and both Capello and Lippi fit the bill.The only negative i've heard against Capello(the frontrunner it seems) is that he has no current connections with English football.Well in that case neither did Eriksson!!

 

[titoli]

I don't know whether PL is the best League in the world, I do not follow it as I haven't got satellite connection. But believe me: ask any player who played in both PL and Serie A and he'll tell you our League is the toughest: always been and probably always will (there was an interview with Vialli on the matter today on a roman newspaper). Here the pressure is by far higher at all levels in every minor league. Now, I have always liked english football for having retained much of the original spirit of the game, without much tacticism and a devil-may-care attitude. But this wasn't good enough to mantain supremacy already in the '30's of the past century. The reform which I think was never made (for incapability or maybe because FA's board was too much incompetent to do it) and should have been made expecially before massively opening up to foreign players, was to create academies for adolescent players like I believe is common practice in the leading football nations. It is not a matter of blocking import from other countries (we opened up gates again from early '80s but kept producing good players ininterruptedly since then) but to teach the young ones. Also Vialli was pointing to some amateurishness still  active in the english players approach to their profession. Now, I don't know if I would like that spirit to disappear, but it is a matter of choice.   

[titoli]

All said, I would be extremely curious to see Capello manage the english team, what the newspapers would say about him, the ugly style of playing he would give to the team, how he would manage folks like Rooney and all the crap. I was surprised that he was interested in getting the job at all. So he must have something in mind (unless he need some restyling for his villa in Spain).   

[Tuco the ugly]

I have to agree with Titoli here; don't know which league is the best but the Italian is for sure the toughest to play in.

[Banjo]

I don't know whether PL is the best League in the world, I do not follow it as I haven't got satellite connection. But believe me: ask any player who played in both PL and Serie A and he'll tell you our League is the toughest: always been and probably always will (there was an interview with Vialli on the matter today on a roman newspaper). Here the pressure is by far higher at all levels in every minor league. Now, I have always liked english football for having retained much of the original spirit of the game, without much tacticism and a devil-may-care attitude. But this wasn't good enough to mantain supremacy already in the '30's of the past century. The reform which I think was never made (for incapability or maybe because FA's board was too much incompetent to do it) and should have been made expecially before massively opening up to foreign players, was to create academies for adolescent players like I believe is common practice in the leading football nations. It is not a matter of blocking import from other countries (we opened up gates again from early '80s but kept producing good players ininterruptedly since then) but to teach the young ones. Also Vialli was pointing to some amateurishness still  active in the english players approach to their profession. Now, I don't know if I would like that spirit to disappear, but it is a matter of choice.   

I don't know what this very often quoted "best league in the world" is based on and  i've no idea if this view is shared outside of England-probably not Maybe because it has a larger ratio of the worlds top players than anyone else,and therefore better quality play.Possibly it has the largest worldwide audience.Quite probably its the most financially lucrative in the world.

My opinion is that its us English blowing our own trumpet.Personally i hate the PL and what it stands for with the multi-million corporation top clubs making it virtually impossible for lower league sides like my team Brighton to access.

I share Tuco's view about Seria A being the toughest and it has always been very highly regarded
in the UK.

Yes Titoli you've probably hit the nail on the head regarding our failure with the academies.

[Banjo]

All said, I would be extremely curious to see Capello manage the english team, what the newspapers would say about him, the ugly style of playing he would give to the team, how he would manage folks like Rooney and all the crap. I was surprised that he was interested in getting the job at all. So he must have something in mind (unless he need some restyling for his villa in Spain).   

I take it that Capello wasn't highly regarded at Roma then?

I haven't looked into his teams close enough to know about his "ugly style" of playing but if he can get us the results thats good enough for me.   Afterall i'm used to England playing an extremely ugly style of rugby and we only narrowly missed out on winning our 2nd world cup in a row last month.

On todays BBC Football Focus at lunchtime they're going to feature an interview with Capello which i'll watch with interest.

With so many English managers ruling themselves out of contention its looking likely that we will have our 2nd overseas boss with Klinnsman's name coming into the fray in this mornings newspapers.My only reservation about him is that unlike Capello,Lippi or Benitez he isn't a proved
winner at top level,he only got one stage further than Eriksson.Plus he never had the task of having to qualify for the last world cup of course.

Unsurprisingly England have dropped to 2nd seeds in the ranking which 'll mean we'll have the pleasure in playing the likes of Italy,France,Germany or Holland etc in the world cup qualifiers so hopefully we'll lose all that apparent complacency that we had before.