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: The Football Thread  ( 376493 )
titoli
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« #240 : June 30, 2006, 03:31:25 PM »

If you want to be caustic you should mention how we won the 1982 title. True, we had those 4 great matches, but we probably arranged things to make a draw with Cameroun  in the first phase.


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« #241 : June 30, 2006, 03:32:08 PM »

You didn't know that, uh? :D


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« #242 : June 30, 2006, 06:28:03 PM »

England 1 Portugal 1 (Damn those portugese winning on pens!)
Brazil 1  France 2


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« #243 : June 30, 2006, 07:14:49 PM »

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(Damn those portugese winning on pens!)/quote]

In Italy we call it "scaramanzia". No english equivalent comes to mind.


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« #244 : July 01, 2006, 12:46:07 AM »


Uh? Never heard of this. And even assuming he had a hand in the first which was played in Italy, how could he arrange things in France?
Theres been a documentary showing every now and again on BBC4 called Football & Fascism where its discussed how Hitler,Mussolini and Franco used football as a political tool to varying degrees of success and how Mussolini especially influenced the World Cups of 1934 where he bribed referees
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1934_FIFA_World_Cup
 
and 1938 when possibly he was responsible through death threats for Hungary throwing the game in the final
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_FIFA_World_Cup

« : July 01, 2006, 12:51:50 AM banjo »
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« #245 : July 01, 2006, 12:56:43 AM »

If you want to be caustic you should mention how we won the 1982 title. True, we had those 4 great matches, but we probably arranged things to make a draw with Cameroun  in the first phase.
I agree Italy were magnificent in 1982 by beating the likes of Brazi,Argentina and West Germany.I wasn't being caustic-far from it ;)
I didn't know about the arranged draw with Cameroon though :o Didn't West Germany and Austria play for a draw in the same tournament? ::)

« : July 01, 2006, 12:58:41 AM banjo »
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« #246 : July 01, 2006, 12:57:56 AM »

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Hitler,Mussolini and Franco used football as a political tool to varying degrees of success

Then it is very strange that on the italian government-controlled newspapers of the time these victories were given little space.




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« #247 : July 01, 2006, 01:00:08 AM »

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I agree Italy were magnificent in 1982

Still the match with Cameroon was arranged.


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« #248 : July 01, 2006, 01:04:49 AM »

Then it is very strange that on the italian government-controlled newspapers of the time these victories were given little space.
Hopefully the BBC will repeat this again so i could expand on this(i'll burn off a dvd for you!) but all three dictators placed a very high value on their football teams excelling for propaganda and other reasons.

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« #249 : July 01, 2006, 01:07:41 AM »

Still the match with Cameroon was arranged.
Titoli isn't it said that it was arranged for Argentina in 1978 to reach the final by them beating a country(whose names slipped my mind) by an unbelievably high score? ::)

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« #250 : July 01, 2006, 01:10:02 AM »

Titoli isn't it said that it was arranged for Argentina in 1978 to reach the final by them beating a country(whose names slipped my mind) by an unbelievably high score? ::)
Just found this:-
"There is a lot of controversy surrounding this World Cup, most notably dealing with Argentina's final game in the second round against Peru. Because of goal difference, Argentina needed to defeat Peru side by at least four goals to qualify for the final instead of Brazil, thanks to Brazil's 3-1 victory against Poland played a few hours earlier. The controversy lies with the fact that the Peruvian goalkeeper at the time (Ramón Quiroga) was actually born in Argentina and had, until that game, only let in six goals in five matches. Argentina, it should be noted, had only scored six goals in the competition up to this point; they put the same number past Peru, winning 6-0 and advancing to the final. Nevertheless, players of both sides still deny any agreement to favor Argentina."

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« #251 : July 01, 2006, 01:43:24 AM »

Then it is very strange that on the italian government-controlled newspapers of the time these victories were given little space.



Titoli i've just found this link for that "Football & Fascism" documentary that looks at "how Europe's right-wing dictatorships pounced on the working man's sport as a means of drumming up support for their politics" including how Mussolini fixed the 1934 tournament.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3128202.stm

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« #252 : July 01, 2006, 02:05:44 AM »

Thanx for the link, but there is nothing significant.   

Quote
In Italy's semi-final against Austria, the referee actually headed the ball to an Italian player.

How did that action ended up?


Quote
The same referee was drafted for the final and invited alone to meet Il Duce before the match. During the game the Italians' aggressive style of play went unpunished and the home team eventually won 2-1.

Can't see nothing wrong in it.

About the Argentina-Peru match, you can't remember it but the result was predicted by all people "before" the match.




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« #253 : July 01, 2006, 02:28:24 AM »

Thanx for the link, but there is nothing significant.   
Nothing significant? :o
"But although Italy was a strong team at the time, its victory in the World Cup could not be assured. So it seems Mussolini, who dubbed himself Il Duce - the leader - set about fixing the tournament.

At times, Italy appeared to have more sway than the official organiser, Fifa. Mussolini dictated which referees would oversee each match, and once on the field their behaviour immediately led to talk of corruption.

The referees of two Italy matches were suspended by their home countries because of the poor standard of their officiating.

In Italy's semi-final against Austria, the referee actually headed the ball to an Italian player. The same referee was drafted for the final and invited alone to meet Il Duce before the match. During the game the Italians' aggressive style of play went unpunished and the home team eventually won 2-1."

As i remember West Germany and Austria drew thei last group game 0-0 to ensure that they progressed to the second stage at the expense of i think Algeria.This was when the last group games were played one after the other which left it more open to match fixing.

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« #254 : July 01, 2006, 03:01:50 AM »

Match fixing, no matter which countries are involved or how it's done, takes the enjoyment out of the game for the majority of footie lovers.  It seems a shame that things that happend in the past can still have an impact on what should be a great game - sepecially the World Cup.

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