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: The Football Thread  ( 369207 )
titoli
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« #390 : July 26, 2006, 02:56:23 PM »

Inter F.C: has just been awarded last season title. I don't think it is right, but well...
The situation is still fuzzy and these people,really, are shamefacedly cheaters. UEFA is going to evaluate the fact that Milan A.C. was given only a minus 30 point  penalty for last season which still allows it to play first round of Champions League this year. This also in spite of the fact that they will start next championship with a minus 8 penalty.
The acting president of the club Galliani (Berlusconi's right arm man) was recorded while having a call from his employee who took care of the referees and which for this was payed 150.000 euros a year from the club. He told Galliani: "Do I have to push for the linesmen?"(meaning that he would "push" with authorities friendly names of linesmen to be assigned to the  Milan's next match)   and Galliani would answer "Yes, yes" all the way. That is not enough to be relegated because...well, you ask the judges. They say that emplyee was not an important figure, though he sat every match on team's field bench, because he had not what is called "signature power". Meaning that, from now on,  each team will have to have an employee which will take care of setting up matches choosing the referees: as long has he's payed under the counter he can do that scotfree. Can you believe that? 
 Just the word football makes me puke.

« : July 26, 2006, 03:15:04 PM titoli »

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« #391 : July 26, 2006, 03:09:25 PM »

Milan said they would accept the sentenza (of course!). The other teams, including Juventus, said yesterday they would try other judiciary ways. Nobody can say at the moment what is going to happen.
Just to make you understand what Juventus was doing, they weren't just deciding what referrees they would have for their own matches, but also those of other matches where there were teams due to confront with Juventus in the weeks to come and whose most relevant players were given absurd yellow and red cards. This mechanism was amply denounced in the years past but there weren't proofs.
Also, other teams were blackmailed into selling or just plain let go their players if they wanted to have their pay tv contracts. (there's a phone call from president of Juventus about Emrson transfer from Roma).
 Now they have proofs and instead of letting start that team from scratch they just relegate it into Serie B (1st division) with a ridiculous minus 12 which will allow them to come back up in Premiership next year, after having stolen 7-8 titles in the last dozen of years and sent bankrupt other teams which just couldn't cope with their cheating. And still they protest because of the different treatment Milan had. Which is right, in a sense.


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« #392 : July 27, 2006, 04:19:11 AM »

I still don't understand why the powers that be couldn't at the very least uphold the original sentences.Maybe the courts are corrupt too and they knew all along that the sentences would be reduced on appeal.The whole court episode was maybe a charade to escape punishment from the higher powers of UEFA and FIFA.

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« #393 : July 27, 2006, 07:59:16 AM »

UEFA could decide not to admit A.C. Milan to the CL.

About the sentence, the fact is that the first degree sentence was established by former judges, nominated this year by the special commissar, the second degree court court was composed of lawyers, colleagues of the lawyers defending the clubs and put there by the former president of italian football federation who was a defendant and that, in fact, was found innocent.


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« #394 : July 28, 2006, 01:23:29 AM »

UEFA could decide not to admit A.C. Milan to the CL.

About the sentence, the fact is that the first degree sentence was established by former judges, nominated this year by the special commissar, the second degree court court was composed of lawyers, colleagues of the lawyers defending the clubs and put there by the former president of italian football federation who was a defendant and that, in fact, was found innocent.
What a fcuking joke and i can sympathise that you're now totally disillusioned with club football :(

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« #395 : August 07, 2006, 02:17:31 AM »

Just to disintoxicate myself from the sewer air of italian football, I watched the first half of Brasil-England at Mexico WC 1970. I was amazed. I din't remember Brasil was playing so bad (4 men blocked in defense, midfiled playing midfield and just some long pass to the wings - usually Jairzinho on the right - throwing it at the center for Pelé or Tostao) but most of all England playing so well. Of course everybody knows that Gordon Banks was the best goalkeeper England ever had (he is my all-time favourite, actually) the way he reacted to Pele head strike proves it clearly. And Bobby Moore: what a player: on a par with Beckenbauer: I remembered that, but it was a pleasure all the same watching him again. But what amazed me most was Bobby Charlton. I didn't remember the way he played and how he played. He was the same kind of player Di Stefano and Cruijff were; he's on all parts of the field, never giving to the other team a chance to know where he will find himself. Technically superb, athletically perfect. England missed 3-4 good chances to score in that first half. What a team! 








« : August 07, 2006, 02:23:12 AM titoli »

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« #396 : August 07, 2006, 01:31:21 PM »

Just watched the second half. Brasil had a athletic preponderance which allowed them to score a goal with english defense not very well ready. Then it was like the first half. No, worse, because England had three clear chances to score (thanks to the happy-go-lucky defense which make Brasil such a pleasure play against) and missed them (hit a crossbar, too). Pelè was nowhere to be seen. That heightens my regret that Italy didn't play the semifinal against England instead of Germany. It seems like destiny that the two teams never played, for one reason or the other, a World Cup Match. Sure, maybe wouldn't have had that historical 4-3, but I would have liked to see that match. And have to admit that England had a 60% chance to win it.
What everybody can see in the match id the physical preponderance the english players had against their opponents. That was never to be seen again.


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« #397 : August 08, 2006, 12:42:08 AM »

Yes that game still has legendary status among English fans which i find surprising considering England didn't even score a goal,let alone lose the game.But considering Brazil at the time were head and shoulders above everyone else i guess we didn't do too badly.I've only seen this game once,shown the night before the 2002 encounter and i agree with what Titoli says about Englands passing and athleticism,the enduring memory being Bobby Moores endless perfect tackling.
Many say we had a better squad than in 1966 and maybe had we not had the bad luck (food poisoning ,scandals etc)plus the tactical errors in the W.Germany game we could've gone further-a sign of things to come methinks ::)

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« #398 : August 08, 2006, 02:20:43 AM »

About Brasil being head and shoulder above the rest...maybe . Surely not above England. And I agree with the ones who say that team was better than the one of 4 years before: much better, actually.
I think altitude and heat had very much to to with the final result. That's why I like the tournament more when played in Europe. Brasil did impress me: unfavourably. Now I understan those who says the 1982 team was much better (don't know if their best ever as I don't have seen the 1958 matches).   


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« #399 : August 08, 2006, 02:33:29 AM »

Well i was only 3 years old and this being the only England game i've seen from this era i'll happily take your word for it that England weren't that much inferior to Brazil-but we must've really gone downhill afterwards because England failed to qualify in both 1974 and 1978.
    From what i saw in 1982 Brazil were never more exciting than they were in Spain-their obvious weakness being a bad defence and a dodgy goalkeeper.They've never really done it for me since and the way they grinded out the world cup win in 1994 was uninspiring.I prefered it when they played with a total freedom-entertainment and flair was all and NOT the result- before all the cynicism(play acting,bad tackling etc)of the last few years crept in.Remember the Rivaldo incident with him grabbing his face in agony in the Japan World Cup? :( 

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« #400 : August 08, 2006, 03:14:58 AM »

You've gone downhill because the world of sports goes on in cycles. And in football you can't have a good team for all editions.  Brasil, after 1970, wouldn't have a competitive team for 24 years. And they have a population almost four times Englands. And add that the european qualifying matches are much harder than the south-americans. Just think about players like Banks, Moore and Charlton: to have 3 players like those in the same generation is not a very frequent event. They would easily be present, that's pat, in England's  all time best 11 in their roles.
About the brasilian defense and goalkeeper, they were always the same: that of 1970 was even worse than 1982: see the two occasions England had in 2nd half!
But I would rather wonder how come England never plays the same kind of football its clubs play: that was always a mystery to me.
No, I don't remember the Rivaldo incident. Didn't follow the matches after the italian scandalous elimination.


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« #401 : August 08, 2006, 04:35:01 AM »

But I would rather wonder how come England never plays the same kind of football its clubs play: that was always a mystery to me.
No, I don't remember the Rivaldo incident. Didn't follow the matches after the italian scandalous elimination.
English players not producing their club form is a mystery to me also-maybe they can't handle the pressure of expectation from the nation.To be honest i half expected England to go out round about the quarter final stage and i can see the same thing happening in Austria/Switzerland 2008-a complete lack of winning mentality.
     Someone correct me if i'm wrong,but i think a ball was thrown at Rivaldo in temper,it hit him in the stomach but Rivaldo grabbed his own face in agony.It was so obvious,it was embarrasing.

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« #402 : August 08, 2006, 06:41:57 AM »

The good thing in football is that you're endlessly proven a liar. And the good (as the bad) things come when least expected.  That's why is the world's game. I wouldn't be so sure about England's (or any team's) future. Still it is strange what you say about english players getting under pressure. One of the commonplaces of italian football commentators is that the italian players are the ones who feel more the pressure while the english ones are the ones who suffer it less!  But, apart from episodes that you had against in many WC editions, I don't think you ever had a team like the one of 1970. Which still went nowhere, like Brasil in 1982 or Italy in 2002.












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« #403 : August 10, 2006, 03:55:34 AM »

I don't think you ever had a team like the one of 1970. Which still went nowhere, like Brasil in 1982 or Italy in 2002.
Being able to score in penalty shoot-outs would be a start for England,until a month ago Italy suffered suffered the same problem so that may be encouraging.But as you've said before to win a major tournament you need a few referee decisions going your way.The other big element is luck,its still hard to believe Greece won the last European tournament with a mediocre team-i guess they struck lucky managing to knock in all their chances-only one chance in most of their games  including the final,but they've been rubbish ever since.No way were Greece the best team in Europe in 2004 :-\ 

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« #404 : August 10, 2006, 11:18:49 AM »

Of course. But you know, I think that the most important thing is to have a "team". This may seem commonplace, but actually is a great truth. This year Italy had a team. You could sense that. What happened off the game field helped the team to concentrate and to insularize itself. Greece sure had luck but also that attitude when playing: you could sense they were all rowing in the same direction, though a mediocre team. In this kind of comnpetitions (european and world cup) played in a restricted lapse of time you need first of all a common intent and concentration in the utmost degree. Those are the basics. It would seem an easy thing to reach, but it isn't so when you're dealing with professionals.
About penalties, it is not entirely correct what you say: remember the semifinal in european championship in 2000 against Holland.

 


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