Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (1973)

[marmota-b]

Indeed, for the lucky someone whose first film viewing experience is OUATITW, Frank is simply a character.

For example me. (OUATITW wasn't my first film, of course, but first and still last with Fonda.) And, believe me, his acting is more important than his previous roles. I was shocked by his coldness, no matter what his usual roles were.

[dave jenkins]

I will admit your post made me chuckle - I agree with you on the Bronson avatar. 

Hey!

[Groggy]

For example me. (OUATITW wasn't my first film, of course, but first and still last with Fonda.) And, believe me, his acting is more important than his previous roles. I was shocked by his coldness, no matter what his usual roles were.

Agreed.  OUATITW was far from the first movie with Fonda I'd seen, but it the first movie I'd really noticed him in.  Ever since I first saw that movie, I was always think for a moment, "Hey, that's Frank!" whenever I see Fonda onscreen in a movie, regardless of the role. 

Also, while I knew Woody Strode the first time I saw the movie (as a fan of John Ford how could I not?), I had no clue who Jack Elam was.

[mike siegel]

Interesting views. I partly agree. Not so much about Kristofferson, I think his rebel quality helped his performance (Sam wanted Bo Hopkins, 'fought for him too).
The whole thing is a hippie western I think. And as most of Peckinpah's best work it devides audiences. I know a lot of () expersts, who have PAT on their Top 3 Peckinpah list. Doesn't make my Top 5 although it's a very good film, not a GREAT one though. I never liked parts of the costumes & haircuts, much unlike BUNCH and other Sam-classics it looks very much 1973. But I love the soundtrack, then again EASY RIDER is my 2nd favorite film
It was a very very though film to make and it shows.
My opinion is, that from day one it was one of those cursed films - even until today. The 1073 version was fucked up by the studio; the 1990 version was screwed up too and Seydor managed it to make some major mistakes too. His version is the best, but still only 90% at best (fot ex. he or whoever choose the wrong music tracks for the raft scene and especially KNOCKIN'). There two sloppy edits (no sound fading), and some scenes are the short now.

Anyway, some people are reeally touched by the film. And that's the proof it is something significant. All in all one of the very last 'great' westerns ever made.


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[marmota-b]

Bringing this thread back with a hope that I might see this film (i.e. Pat Garret and Billy the Kid, for those, who already forgot it ) on big screen... it's being brought to Czech cinemas by "Projekt 100", a project that is trying to promote a certain number of old and independent films every year.
(I would give a link, but the page isn't available in English yet, so it would make no sense.)

[dave jenkins]

I wonder if that's going to be the discredited 2005 cut of the film?

[marmota-b]

I wonder if that's going to be the discredited 2005 cut of the film?

I don't think so... but you never know. The informations about it on the web aren't much detailled - and the source is also speculative, because when I read there their informations about another film I saw, Andrzej Wajda's Pan Tadeusz, there were at least two mistakes in the plot and the names were in English or French or what, instead of Polish - so the person who wrote it didn't bother watching it or learning more about it. They probably just translated it from another source.

[marmota-b]

So it will be on 22.2. in my favourite cinema in Kolin and they write it has 122 min. What version is that?

[Leone Admirer]

That'll be the 1988 restored version done by Roger Spottiswoode 

[marmota-b]

Thanks. Is that a good version? Anyway, I cannot choose.

[Leone Admirer]

I personally think it is. It's the one that Peckinpah had the most control over. It's certainly better then the 2005 recut...

[marmota-b]

Then I'm lucky. Let's hope I'll really make it to watch it on 22th... but I don't see any problems, except the possibility I could be ill.

[Leone Admirer]

I hope for you thet your not . It's a good if flawed film. (also with this version the audio is still in it's unsweetended state. Just to warn you)

[The Peacemaker]

I agree. The 1988 version is the best. Although 2005 one had more scenes, the editing in the '88 film is far greater.

[marmota-b]

(also with this version the audio is still in it's unsweetended state. Just to warn you)

Well, I suppose it will have subtitles, so I guess I won't mind so much.