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| | |-+  Do Historical Innacuracies Keep You From Enjoying Some Movies
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: Do Historical Innacuracies Keep You From Enjoying Some Movies  ( 25464 )
Banjo
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« #30 : August 10, 2006, 07:52:37 AM »

I sure didn't. never saw the movie. But Banjo wasn't talking jocularly. He meant it.
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« #31 : August 10, 2006, 08:15:56 AM »

They don't bother me either, unless they are downright insulting, such as flag waving, revisionist nonsense like the WHY WE FIGHT bollocks that was the title of that BAND OF BROTHERS episode.

Usually they are there to enhance the drama. Going back to Zulu again, the actual battle in "real life" was fought entierly in one night, instead of over the course of two days, mostley in brilliant sunshine. It would have made for a much less interesting and spectacular  picture, however.


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« #32 : August 10, 2006, 10:55:29 AM »

Quote
They don't bother me either, unless they are downright insulting, such as flag waving, revisionist nonsense like the WHY WE FIGHT bollocks that was the title of that BAND OF BROTHERS episode.

  I like that episode.  Easy Company finding the concentration camp is very moving to watch, and I like how they frame the episode with Capt. Nixon announcing that Hitler is dead.  Of course, I like all the episodes.

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« #33 : August 10, 2006, 11:52:57 AM »

  I like that episode.  Easy Company finding the concentration camp is very moving to watch, and I like how they frame the episode with Capt. Nixon announcing that Hitler is dead.  Of course, I like all the episodes.

Exactly the same here, it's a difficult episode to watch but I certainly don't have any problems with it in it's reputation of the material.


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« #34 : August 10, 2006, 01:03:05 PM »

  I like that episode.  Easy Company finding the concentration camp is very moving to watch, and I like how they frame the episode with Capt. Nixon announcing that Hitler is dead.  Of course, I like all the episodes.

Same with me. One of those historical eras I don't know much about, so if there is something wrong, I don't know it. I didn't find it exaggerated or what, quite appropriate for me to watch. That's why I like Band of Brothers. Not too much "heroic", though there is this aspect in it, and not too much "unheroic", something in the middle.
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« #35 : August 10, 2006, 03:33:12 PM »

My problem with that episode rests with it's title, WHY WE FIGHT.

It implies that the US rushed into WWII to prevent the destruction of Euopean Jewry in a selfless act of sacrifice.

If we look at the facts however, that war began (in Europe anyway) on September 1st 1939. The US did not actually get involved until December 7th, 1941. That was more than 2 years later, and less than one month before Reinhard Heydrich chaired the Wannsee Conference outlining the final solution for Eupopean Jewry. Indeed, the US initially only declared war on Japan, and it was only following Hitler's hubristic decleration of Nazi hostility in keeping with his Axis pact with Tojo that the US finally declared war on Germany.

Why so late? Well, its partly because people like George W. Bush's grand-daddy Prescott had massive business interest concerns with the Nazi's, and had powerful backers in the US administration. They were of course happy to see these carry on turning a profit. Prescott Bush, was in the early months of America's WWII, constantly stripped of long standing business interests because they were either fronts for, or unashamed Nazi German money making concerns in the US, which had become illegal under the "Trading with the Enemy Act". All this when Prescott's little 18 year old boy George was training to be a navy pilot.

To be fair to Roosevelt, he had done everything he legally could to help the UK, in the face of powerful anti-war and pro-Nazi lobbies in Congress.

In the last 20 years or so there has been a massive attempt culturally to make us all believe that the US won the war single handed, and that it got involved because of the horrors of Auschwitz, and other such lies, because of this we should all be eternally grateful to the US (Look at the moral blackmail the Bush administration exerted on France before the invasion of Iraq to "get with team"). Stuff like WHY WE FIGHT and SAVING PRIVATE RYAN are part of that propaganda effort. I'm sure Joseph Goebbels would have been envious.


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« #36 : August 10, 2006, 03:48:21 PM »

Well from my understanding, as terrible as it was--it was the Soviet Union that won the war.  It's something like 1 out of every 3 men who died in WW2 were from the USSR

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« #37 : August 10, 2006, 04:16:31 PM »

No comment on the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact then Juan, and the fact that the USSR and Nazi Germany traded massive amounts of military supplies from 1939-41? 

And why oh why do you need to bring the Bushes into this?  Trying to pick a fight with me eh?  ;D



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« #38 : August 10, 2006, 04:21:38 PM »

Well from my understanding, as terrible as it was--it was the Soviet Union that won the war.  It's something like 1 out of every 3 men who died in WW2 were from the USSR

Well they were definitely a big part of it, but Stalin himself didn't think Russia could've won the war without American/British help, after all two-thirds of Germany was liberated by American troops.  I think the USSR ultimately would've won, but it would've taken decades and tens of millions of lives without outside help.  And the fact is most of postwar Europe would probably have been under Stalin's thumb.



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« #39 : August 10, 2006, 06:06:09 PM »

No comment on the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact then Juan,

I don't see what any of that has to do with a revisionist  American TV episode called WHY WE FIGHT?


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« #40 : August 10, 2006, 06:10:43 PM »

the fact is most of postwar Europe would probably have been under Stalin's thumb.

The fact is that much of postwar Europe was for some 50 odd years under the thumb of Stalin(ism). WWII started (for Britain at least) over Germany's invasion of Poland. It was a bitter irony that by the end of the war we were helpless to do anything to help that sorry nation, and ultimatly watched it enslaved by Russia for decades.

« : August 10, 2006, 06:16:19 PM Juan Miranda »

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« #41 : August 10, 2006, 11:43:44 PM »

My problem with that episode rests with it's title, WHY WE FIGHT.

It implies that the US rushed into WWII to prevent the destruction of Euopean Jewry in a selfless act of sacrifice.

I always felt like this: USA really didn't fight because of that. But in fact soldiers weren't sure why they fight. There are some hints in it that say, that they would be quite friendly to Germans if it wasn't war... But then they found this. And it was all changed.

But it can be caused by the fact that I know, how few was known about Jews in concentration camps (at least we believe that nothing was known about the real state of them in Britain and US...), so I look on it like this. But, well, they were really surprised to find out. I always felt Band of Brothers is matter of personal participation on the war.

I cannot tell whether it is or isn't propaganda. But I don't look at it like that, no matter what it is. Maybe I know about the era more that I thought, so I cannot be spoiled by it... I tend to know context better that data.



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« #42 : August 11, 2006, 04:29:35 AM »

My problem with that episode rests with it's [sic] title, WHY WE FIGHT.

It implies that the US rushed into WWII to prevent the destruction of Euopean Jewry in a selfless act of sacrifice.

The title implies no such thing.  It's a direct reference to a series of propaganda films produced during the war that more often than not portrayed the Axis (not entirely inaccurately) as a collective of monsters.  Interestingly enough, the films were directed by Frank Capra, who at the time was a Major in the US Army Signal Corps.


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« #43 : August 11, 2006, 05:56:42 AM »

James beat me to it, "Why We Fight" was referencing the documentary/propaganda films.  It's silly to read anything else into that.

Quote
The fact is that much of postwar Europe was for some 50 odd years under the thumb of Stalin(ism). WWII started (for Britain at least) over Germany's invasion of Poland. It was a bitter irony that by the end of the war we were helpless to do anything to help that sorry nation, and ultimatly watched it enslaved by Russia for decades.

That's quite unfortunate, certainly.  The fact is though that the Polish government-in-exile was in London, and Stalin executed most of their supporters when his guys went in (as well as allowing the Warsaw insurrection to collapse even though his troops were just a few miles outside the city).  Short of direct war with the Soviets there was little we could've done to help the Poles, sadly.  We also liberated quite a bit of Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia, but for "political" reasons had to let Stalin take them over. . .



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« #44 : August 11, 2006, 08:18:45 AM »

Well from my understanding, as terrible as it was--it was the Soviet Union that won the war.  It's something like 1 out of every 3 men who died in WW2 were from the USSR
Although the burden of the fighting in Europe fell to the Soviets, they did almost nothing against the Japanese. The U.S. won the Pacific War.



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