Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 20, 2021, 04:32:41 PM
:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Films of Sergio Leone
| |-+  Other Films (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  Eastwoods worst western?
0 and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6
: Eastwoods worst western?  ( 30094 )
Banjo
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4427


Don't you like music with your supper?


« #45 : January 30, 2007, 06:08:26 AM »

Actually it was a remake of "the Great Silence"!
Joe Kidd a remake? :o i don't think so but i remember seeing a documentary somewhere about Clint being influenced by Corbucci's classic but to what extent i'm not certain.

pablo113
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 93

"No, no water"


« #46 : January 30, 2007, 11:04:05 AM »

"Two Mules for Sister Sara" is one of Eastwoods best post Leone films! It was directed by Don Seigal and has Ennio Morricone doin the music!

Pablo

Tuco the ugly
Guest


« #47 : January 30, 2007, 11:18:18 AM »

"Two Mules for Sister Sara" is one of Eastwoods best post Leone films! It was directed by Don Seigal and has Ennio Morricone doin the music!

Pablo



It's not bad but it's not that good either.
Just another western on the track of the man with no name,seen before.
Shirley M. adds a little to the freshness of the movie but that's all.

pablo113
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 93

"No, no water"


« #48 : February 14, 2007, 11:30:14 PM »

Just went to see a double feature at the Film Forum in NYC, with Lee Van Cleef, "Death Rides a Horse" and "the Big Gundown". Van Cleef knew that he could ride the wave of Spaghetti success to keep his career goin. He made some really good films after "the Good the Bad, and the Ugly". Some that seem to be sequels to the dollar films, unfortunately without Eastwood. One patron said that Van Cleef did more to keep the genre going than most of the other famous actors. Eastwood did go on to make other sucessful films......"Dirty Harry", "Where Eagles Dare", "Thunderbolt and Lightfoot", but I cannot think of one western that was as good as the Dollars films he did? I think "Two Mules for Sister Sara" was an ode to the Leone films. I wished Eastwood could have done a few more Italian films like Wallach, Van Cleef, Volonte, and other actors did.

Pablo

cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13882


easy come easy go


« #49 : February 15, 2007, 04:59:39 PM »

You have to check out the films of Tomas Milian and Franco Nero, and also the Great Silence with a lot of the FAFDM cast Luigi Pistilli, Mario Brega, Klaus Kinski, and Frank Wolf from OUTITW.


"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
pablo113
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 93

"No, no water"


« #50 : February 16, 2007, 12:59:10 AM »

I saw alot of them already, they are great films!

Pablo

New Brandon
Chicken Thief
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 30


« #51 : February 16, 2007, 02:04:45 PM »

I could never really get into Joe Kidd... Never seen Paint Your Wagon... I've seen Two Mules many times, I don't take the movie seriously. It's like a fun 90 minutes or whatever with Ennio, Eastwood and Siegel. Hang 'Em High isn't too great. High Plains Drifter is a good movie.

It's probably Paint Your Wagon, like most people are saying, but I haven't seen it, so I can't really say that.

Profroche
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


Nice shooting,son.What's your name?


« #52 : March 05, 2007, 02:44:16 AM »

Paint Your Wagon hands down,if you count that.Hang 'Em High otherwise,it's just too loose and bland.

I LOVE High Plains Drifter,by the way. Clint's all scumbag,all the time in that movie. A great twist on the revenge western.

cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13882


easy come easy go


« #53 : March 05, 2007, 03:57:40 PM »

Quote
I LOVE High Plains Drifter,by the way. Clint's all scumbag,all the time in that movie. A great twist on the revenge western.

I'm beginning to say yes HPD was the best script for an Eastwood Western, he's very close to his Man With No Name persona in this film and it could have been his best Western if they would have just spent more money on the sets and had a bit more of the surrealistic Mono Lake landscape it cheaped out in those respects and though Geoffrey Lewis was ok as the villian it would have been a bit better if an actore a bit nore bad ass could have been the chief baddie.


"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
Silenzio
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2906



« #54 : March 05, 2007, 04:00:34 PM »

Paint Your Wagon hands down,if you count that.

I think i'm the only one here who (gasp) really enjoys Paint Your Wagon, even better than Pale Rider.

Profroche
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


Nice shooting,son.What's your name?


« #55 : March 06, 2007, 02:08:19 AM »

I think i'm the only one here who (gasp) really enjoys Paint Your Wagon, even better than Pale Rider.

Gonna use oil based paint,because the wood is piine!

...Ponderosa piiiiiine!

tokyorose
Chicken Thief
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


« #56 : March 07, 2007, 07:35:10 PM »

I think Hang 'Em High is one of Eastwood's best westerns (it doesn't hold a candle to the spaghetties, but then what does?) because of the way it challenges the audience to think about the complex relationship between law, justice and vengeance, just as The Good, the Bad and the Ugly challenges the audience's views on morality and war. 

High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider deal with the same issues as Hang 'Em High, but on a very simple level.  A quasi-supernatural hero arrives who knows with complete certainty who is good and who is bad, (and everyone in these films is morally black or white: there are no shades of grey, as there are in real people) and is easily able to thwart them without ever having to concern himself with law.   There isn't really much we can take from this and use in our lives.

I find Hang 'Em High fascinating in that the protagonist, Jed Cooper, undergoes a spiritual journey as a result of his ordeal and finds that there are no easy answers.  Although the publicity material says that Cooper is determined to exact vengeance on all the men who tried to lynch him, this is simply not true.  He learns that each of his persecutors is an individual with a host of complex factors that mitigate or aggravate each man's guilt.  He learns that law and justice are not always synonomous, and that it is not vengeance that heals, but love. 

Add to this Clint's quietly moving performance and direction by Ted Post, one of the best directors from Rawhide, and you have a unique film that, like The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, uses the Western genre to ask probing questions that still face us today.

cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13882


easy come easy go


« #57 : March 07, 2007, 09:37:50 PM »

Quote
I find Hang 'Em High fascinating in that the protagonist, Jed Cooper, undergoes a spiritual journey as a result of his ordeal and finds that there are no easy answers.  Although the publicity material says that Cooper is determined to exact vengeance on all the men who tried to lynch him, this is simply not true.  He learns that each of his persecutors is an individual with a host of complex factors that mitigate or aggravate each man's guilt.  He learns that law and justice are not always synonomous, and that it is not vengeance that heals, but love. 

It did tackle a fascinating angle but its execution was a bit uneven more TV-ish and not very cinematic It could have been better. I don't think its his worst Western.

Here is an old  thread where I took up Eastwoods American Westerns:

I sort of picked up a ball and ran with this in the off topic section but I think it bears more looking into.
Maybe the correct place is here.

Like I said below I like all of Clint's westerns but they never quite matched up to any of Leones, "Unforgiven" was Clints best effort and is close to perfection,  for reasons that I'll get to later or if you can't wait jump down and see under Off Topic Discussions.

I'd really like to hear your thoughts, I'd always leave an early Eastwood western with the feeling that I was getting short changed. With a Leone western it was like getting a full meal. Maybe its that Clint's larger than life persona carries these vehicles over the rough spots and you tend to forget what we lost not having Leone direct them or Morricone score them.

Except for the newbies, I think we all know Leone pretty good, so lets all think like Leone and see if we could have made these movies better than they are.

That said I remember eagerly waiting the premier of "Hang 'em High" Clints first American western upon his leaving Leone.  A great story, Clint (intitially a drover reminicent of his "Rawhide" days) gets hanged by a lynch mob and survives to serve vengeance upon his hangers. It had a great historical back story, though for the life of me I don't know why they changed the names. In the movie the Hanging Judge was Judge Fenton and the town was Ft. Grant, in real life the Judge was Issac Parker and the town was Ft. Smith, Arkansas. The historical depictions of the multiple hangings were great.  The movie did have some ok camera camera angles. The scene where Clint confronts Reno is a classic but it goes down hill from there.

The vigilantes for the most part are lightweights, take the two captains, Captain Maddow,  and "The Captain" Alan Hale-Gilligan's Island, come on give me a break. Leone would have had distict memorable baddies maybe even top stars as baddies, each would have had some sort of unique confrontation with Clint. What happend to the Swede, most of that apparently was left on the cutting room floor, only Bruce Dern had a spark of some devious charater. It seems that a lot of the story was truncated,  Leone would have given it the full treatment.  That whole storyline with Inger Stevens was for the most part another melodramatic waste, she should have been played against type and should have been one of the whores. There was also no big shoot out ending, it sort of just fizzled out, Clint rides off to serve more warrents, hummm...  think of how great Leone's version might have been. And to top it all off the music was a joke, they could have used some serious Morricone.

I suppose you could say in fairness that they didn't want to make a carbon copy Leone (which they probably could not do any way being back in the Hollywood picture mill), but, I still think it could have been much better.


http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=148.0

« : March 07, 2007, 09:48:22 PM cigar joe »

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
Eric
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 153



« #58 : March 08, 2007, 12:56:57 AM »

For the record, I love Paint Your Wagon. I love the ridiculousness of letting Lee Marvin sing. I love that his track went to number one in England. I'm not ashamed.

Profroche
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


Nice shooting,son.What's your name?


« #59 : March 08, 2007, 02:16:16 AM »

High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider deal with the same issues as Hang 'Em High, but on a very simple level.  A quasi-supernatural hero arrives who knows with complete certainty who is good and who is bad, (and everyone in these films is morally black or white: there are no shades of grey, as there are in real people) and is easily able to thwart them without ever having to concern himself with law.   There isn't really much we can take from this and use in our lives.

Hang 'Em High had a great plot,I don't think anyone argues that. It's the execution of it I think most take issue with. It does have a very TV-ish feel to it overall,and the 'villians' were poorly drawn out. The movie usually concerns itself with Eastwood's reactions,rather than the lynchers actions. And since all the antagonists are broad strokes of grey,it makes them seem incomplete.

Having defended HPD once already,I'll do it again. Far from being a straight good vs. evil tale,I see it as one of the most amoral westerns ever made. Eastwood's character can hardly be called good,because whatever reason he has for his actions he extracts his revenge extremely brutally,and lies,steals,kills and rapes from people who often are only guilty of cowardice. None of the villians are truly evil,just scared and desperate,lying to themselves and anyone else that will listen that they had to do what they did. And after all,they only killed one man to save their whole town. Eastwood destroys the whole town just to satisfy his desire for revenge. When Eastwood rides off leaving the town to fend for itself against the outlaws,it's hard not to feel pity for them.

: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6  
« previous next »
:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
0.054150