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: Morton's music theme  ( 7355 )
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« : March 19, 2007, 01:27:03 AM »

I went on Wikipedia and in the section music of an article Once Upon a time in the West i saw quote:"The film features the leitmotifs wich relate to each of the main characters (each with their own unique theme music) as well as to the spirit of the American West. There is only one character who doesn't have a leitmotif: Frank takes on Morton's leitmotif by killing him." This last sentence I don't understand. I know that Frank has his music "Like a judgment", and Harmonica's music leitmotif is "Man with Harmonica". As I recall, Morton does have his music (I believe in a scene when Morton looks at the picture with a ocean motif, and in a scene when he slowly dying near mug pool). So how come Morton doesn't have his leitmotif, and still Frank gets it from him by killing Morton. That is cotradictory. Beside the fact that Frank didn't kill Morton( and there is no solid evidence that Morton is even shot), wich scene in your opinion, shows Frank taking over Morton's theme? I didn't find that scene. I know that at the end of the movie Frank's motif is mixed with Harmonica's, but Mortons? Is it possible that Wikipedia made a mistake?I would like to hear your answer.

« : March 19, 2007, 01:28:05 AM poderator »
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« #1 : March 19, 2007, 04:06:08 AM »

yea it's a mistake, isn't Wikipedia's content supplied by fans? There are lots of erroneous content on there.


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« #2 : March 20, 2007, 12:22:46 AM »

Thanks alot for the information, cigar joe! 

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« #3 : March 20, 2007, 10:23:15 AM »

( and there is no solid evidence that Morton is even shot

If you look at him properly, you can see blood on his neck. That's all that is there. Frank never shoots him.

Wikipedia has many mistakes, of course. Or insecure informations... On the other hand, what it writes about Danny Boy is true. O0
http://www.theoriginofdannyboy.com/



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« #4 : March 21, 2007, 04:35:25 PM »

Wikipedia is not to be believed, even I have posted there ;D

The idea that Frank doesn't have a theme and that he gets Morton's isn't borne out by the film. Morton leaves nothing of himself behind; his theme passes with him.

Music links Harmonica and Frank, just as the plot does. In Once Upon a Time: The Films of Sergio Leone, Robert C. Cumbow makes this telling point:

Quote
“As a Judgment” is not tied to a single character; Harmonica and Frank more or less share it. The segment represents not a character but a collision—not only the debt between the two men but also the one means of final resolution to which they have recourse. (205).

Appropriately, the theme is not given its full expression until the final showdown, when the “Man with the Harmonica” cue joins with the completely developed “As a Judgment” in the “Duello Finale.” At the point of dying, Harmonica passes his instrument on to Frank; the sound of the harmonica, up to that point associated exclusively with Harmonica, becomes Frank’s death rattle. Thus the men share everything—theme, instrument, memory—at the final reckoning. Both the sound of the harmonica and the “As a Judgment” theme then disappear from the film.



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« #5 : March 21, 2007, 08:20:18 PM »

I'm tired of Wikipedia's lies.




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« #6 : March 22, 2007, 02:10:48 AM »

Thanks alot Dave Jenkins! I have a question concerning Cheyenee's music theme (maybe you discussed this on the other threads. If so, can you tell me wich one?). As I recall (maybe I am wrong) Harmonica pick up Cheyenee's body on a horse, and main theme Once Upon a time in the West start. But after railroad and Jill sequence, we are back at Harmonica, and there is Cheyenne theme as Harmonica rides of. Cheyenee is dead too, he is, as we all know, killed actually and simbolically by the head of the railroad, Morton. He had his finall rattle on electric banjo too. My question is: why using the theme of the man that is no longer alive, his era has gone. Morton, Frank and Harmonica theme has ended in exact moment when they fulfilled their destinies. Morton and Frank died and the music that defined them is also gone. Harmonica finally gets what he want and his music also disappear. Why only Cheyenee's theme survived death of the character?

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« #7 : March 22, 2007, 03:53:50 PM »

Why only Cheyenee's theme survived death of the character?

possibly because Harmonica doesnt have his Harmonica? I dont know thats my 2 cents ;D

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« #8 : March 23, 2007, 07:48:32 AM »

Thanks alot Dave Jenkins! I have a question concerning Cheyenee's music theme (maybe you discussed this on the other threads. If so, can you tell me wich one?). As I recall (maybe I am wrong) Harmonica pick up Cheyenee's body on a horse, and main theme Once Upon a time in the West start. But after railroad and Jill sequence, we are back at Harmonica, and there is Cheyenne theme as Harmonica rides of. Cheyenee is dead too, he is, as we all know, killed actually and simbolically by the head of the railroad, Morton. He had his finall rattle on electric banjo too. My question is: why using the theme of the man that is no longer alive, his era has gone. Morton, Frank and Harmonica theme has ended in exact moment when they fulfilled their destinies. Morton and Frank died and the music that defined them is also gone. Harmonica finally gets what he want and his music also disappear. Why only Cheyenee's theme survived death of the character?
Something similar happens at the end of Giu la testa, when Sean's Theme is reprised after Mallory is blown up. It is a kind of memorial to the character who has passed, a way to remember him by. Notice that in OUATITW the final Cheyenne theme plays during the credits: the movie is over, the music is referring back to something we have already seen. Also, the theme is the exact cue known as "Adios Cheyenne" which includes the long pause near the end to show that Cheyenne has given up the ghost. SL is prodding us to remember the significance of a particular cue.

It's somewhat odd that Cheyenne is in this way privileged over Harmonica, but Harmonica is still alive (also, he no longer has an instrument or a theme). Music reminding us of Morton or Frank would have been inappropriate, and Jill's theme has just played. There is no other piece of music that CAN go there, and Cheyenne is due a remembrance.



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« #9 : March 23, 2007, 08:02:42 AM »

Something similar happens at the end of Giu la testa, when Sean's Theme is reprised after Mallory is blown up. It is a kind of memorial to the character who has passed, a way to remember him by. Notice that in OUATITW the final Cheyenne theme plays during the credits: the movie is over, the music is referring back to something we have already seen. Also, the theme is the exact cue known as "Adios Cheyenne" which includes the long pause near the end to show that Cheyenne has given up the ghost. SL is prodding us to remember the significance of a particular cue.

It's somewhat odd that Cheyenne is in this way privileged over Harmonica, but Harmonica is still alive (also, he no longer has an instrument or a theme). Music reminding us of Morton or Frank would have been inappropriate, and Jill's theme has just played. There is no other piece of music that CAN go there, and Cheyenne is due a remembrance.

Cheyenne's theme is not suppose to play during the credits. This only happens in the English versions. In the other versions the OUATITW theme continues to play.

The same thing applies for Sean Mallory's theme at the end of DYS. The Sean theme only plays at the end on the restored print which has incorrect musical cues. The song that is suppose to play after Coburn's suicide is Dopo l'Esplosione ( After the Explosion ).


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« #10 : March 23, 2007, 08:13:14 AM »

Cheyenne's theme is not suppose to play during the credits. This only happens in the English versions. In the other versions the OUATITW theme continues to play.

The same thing applies for Sean Mallory's theme at the end of DYS. The Sean theme only plays at the end on the restored print which has incorrect musical cues. The song that is suppose to play after Coburn's suicide is Dopo l'Esplosione ( After the Explosion ).

I wish we'd get an american version with the theme continuing on playing in the end credits.




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« #11 : March 23, 2007, 08:15:27 AM »

I wish we'd get an american version with the theme continuing on playing in the end credits.

I hope you didn't read all of my post.

I gave away the ending to DYS.   :-[


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« #12 : March 23, 2007, 04:20:56 PM »

Cheyenne's theme is not suppose to play during the credits. This only happens in the English versions. In the other versions the OUATITW theme continues to play.

The same thing applies for Sean Mallory's theme at the end of DYS. The Sean theme only plays at the end on the restored print which has incorrect musical cues. The song that is suppose to play after Coburn's suicide is Dopo l'Esplosione ( After the Explosion ).
I'll grant that our current version of DYS has the wrong cues (I'd forgotten about that), but unless you can show me that the original theatrical release of the English version of OUATITW had only Jill's theme at the end, then including the Cheyenne reprise as we have it now is "correct." The cuts of the Italian and English-language versions of the film are different, and there is no reason why the musical cues can't be different too. This is not merely a question of personal preference (even if the person concerned is Leone himself), this is a matter of maintaining the integrity of (historically occurring)diverging traditions. There are two different films out there,  OUATITW and C'era una volta il West.



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« #13 : March 25, 2007, 11:31:52 PM »

Something similar happens at the end of Giu la testa, when Sean's Theme is reprised after Mallory is blown up. It is a kind of memorial to the character who has passed, a way to remember him by. Notice that in OUATITW the final Cheyenne theme plays during the credits: the movie is over, the music is referring back to something we have already seen. Also, the theme is the exact cue known as "Adios Cheyenne" which includes the long pause near the end to show that Cheyenne has given up the ghost. SL is prodding us to remember the significance of a particular cue.

It's somewhat odd that Cheyenne is in this way privileged over Harmonica, but Harmonica is still alive (also, he no longer has an instrument or a theme). Music reminding us of Morton or Frank would have been inappropriate, and Jill's theme has just played. There is no other piece of music that CAN go there, and Cheyenne is due a remembrance.
I agree. Cheyenne music motif plays after title of the movie, so we can accept the fact that this music is not part of the main plot. Still, I like to think that Cheyenne's motif is here for a reason. Harmonica's theme would be inapropriate because his theme is revenge and he already fulfill it. Maybe main reason is because Harmonica is the only character from the Old West that survived at the end of the movie. This motif is sort of reminder that as long as Harmonica exist in this world there will be something of that ancient world left. Harmonica is the only living link that connect us with that mithic world of the Wild West. So this motif is a sort of hommage to the man from the border.

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« #14 : April 07, 2007, 02:14:02 AM »

Is there a release of OUATITW with Mortons theme intact? I love his theme song, but unfortunately both the cd and vinyl I have are sorely missing his song.


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