Which american western...

[titoli]

...made prior (or even after) to 1964 would you show back to back with FOD to illustrate everything Leone went up against?

[cigar joe]

Thats a good question... it would have to be one with a lot of mellodrama, too much dialog, little action, and a big love interest.  A sung title song by the "Sons of the Pioneers" would be a bonus.

[titoli]

Well, any singin' cowboy 30's and '40's movie would fit in. But I don't think we could take them as examples as much Hollywood production had distanced itself from that output in the '50's.  I was rather thinking about some more evolute example from the 50's which retains some of the western blood but waters it  down by sticking to some schlock  Hollywood rules. Shane comes to mind. But probably there's something else.

[cigar joe]

Here's one, watching it as I type "San Antonio" with Errol Flynn, overblown Hollywood, at its worst.

[The Peacemaker]

Here's one, watching it as I type "San Antonio" with Errol Flynn, overblown Hollywood, at its worst.

I really liked that one!

[cigar joe]

Well in "San Antonio", everyone's way too clean, it has way too much of a love story, and it has a lot of overblown sterotypes.

Any early cheap John Wayne Republic Picture would do too where the heavy (villian) really is the heavy. It seems that AMC on early Saturday mormings always has one of these on.

[Leonardo]

Thats a good question... it would have to be one with a lot of mellodrama, too much dialog, little action, and a big love interest.  A sung title song by the "Sons of the Pioneers" would be a bonus.

Right, CJ. If I may add:
- Neatly pressed shirt and no dust at all on clothes and face after a 30 miles ride.
- No visible sweat after a 5 minutes fight
- Hair perfectly combed in every scene, in particular the hero and his lady
- The bad guys mostly dressed in dark clothes
etc. etc.
So my next question is: don't you think that 99% of westerns produced before Leone were of this type???

[cigar joe]

A lot for sure but the worst were in the late 30's to early 50's. By the time you started getting the Psycological Westerns after WWII things began to change a bit the heros were becoming flawed rather than "boy scout" types.

A lot of early John Wayne Republic Pictures were like the boy scout type.

[titoli]

But I don't think they were what Leone was shooting at. Later Hollywood western did that too, partially. His aim was higher.

[cigar joe]

I was rather thinking about some more evolute example from the 50's which retains some of the western blood but waters it  down by sticking to some schlock  Hollywood rules. Shane comes to mind. But probably there's something else.

Try "No Name On the Bullit" (1959) with Audie Murphy.

[dave jenkins]

Why not show the American Western at its best, and then SL excelling such an example? I'd pair Vera Cruz with a Leone. Or is it the Italian way to fight only straw men?

[The Peacemaker]

Try "No Name On the Bullit" (1959) with Audie Murphy.

I wanted to see that.

[cigar joe]

Why not show the American Western at its best, and then SL excelling such an example? I'd pair Vera Cruz with a Leone. Or is it the Italian way to fight only straw men?
 

I don't think its that, I believe he wants an example of an average B American Western from the pre Leone period to match up against what I consider Leone's  B "A Fistul Of Dollars".

[Groggy]

Why not show the American Western at its best, and then SL excelling such an example? I'd pair Vera Cruz with a Leone. Or is it the Italian way to fight only straw men?

Very good point. It's not really fair to compare Sergio's movie to "Paradise Canyon" or a Gene Autry movie like "The Phantom Empire". It would be like comparing "Attack of the Crab Monsters" to "Jaws" or "Psycho".

[cigar joe]

Vera Cruz would be ok, but it has well know stars, which would be sort of the reverse, no?