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: Lenin vs. Lennon  ( 30884 )
Whalestoe
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« #15 : September 20, 2007, 08:44:51 PM »

There has yet to be anyone who can accurately accomplish the communist doctrine. And there may never be anyone who can do it.

I say we resurrect Lennon and elect him as a world leader.  

Good thing his body's preserved. Add that to my reasons of wanting to be preserved: 1) Lovin' after death, 2) Being Resurrected in the distant fuuu-tuuure.

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« #16 : September 20, 2007, 08:49:03 PM »

There has yet to be anyone who can accomplish the communist doctrine. And there may never be anyone who can do it.

I say we resurrect Lennon and elect him as a world leader.  
yeah im sorry sonny but im not too crazy about having the checka in place of our police force or commisars instead of teachers or bosses. and again even if you did try to strictly follow the communist doctrine it would still fail. all People are (to an extant) greedy and selfish. there are normal rational selfishness/greed (the pursuit of happiness is a selfish goal, being as it is a goal to make your self happy) and irrational "evil" selfishness/greed (robbery murder ect) communism trys to destroy one of the most basic/fundamental human instincts, the right of property. Just think about it, whats the first word you learn other then mommy or daddy? "Mine", mine is the most primary instinct known to man, to give up this instinct is to give up on life.


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« #17 : September 20, 2007, 08:56:52 PM »

yeah im sorry sonny but im not too crazy about having the checka in place of our police force or commisars instead of teachers or bosses. and again even if you did try to strictly follow the communist doctrine it would still fail. all People are (to an extant) greedy and selfish. there are normal rational selfishness/greed (the pursuit of happiness is a selfish goal, being as it is a goal to make your self happy) and irrational "evil" selfishness/greed (robbery murder ect) communism trys to destroy one of the most basic/fundamental human instincts, the right of property. Just think about it, whats the first word you learn other then mommy or daddy? "Mine", mine is the most primary instinct known to man, to give up this instinct is to give up on life.

Well the things you mentioned aren't what communism was meant to represent. The big flaw about the theories of books like The Communist Manifesto is that they planted the idea that people can be civil if given the chance, and represented ideas that cannot be followd by most people because, like you said, most people dont know what they want and need to be controlled. Communism was originally designed as a means to create freedom not destroy it the way modern politicians have done.

Conclusion; communism would only work if so many people in the world weren't so stupid.




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Whalestoe
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« #18 : September 20, 2007, 08:59:25 PM »

...Or if there weren't so many people... >:D Mwuahahahahaha

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« #19 : September 20, 2007, 09:01:38 PM »

...Or if there weren't so many people... >:D Mwuahahahahaha

That too.  ;)




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« #20 : September 20, 2007, 09:17:20 PM »

...Or if there weren't so many people... >:D Mwuahahahahaha
thats probably the only actual way to make communism remotely work, in a weird twisted way. and its not so much that people are stupid, its just that it doesn't appeal to anyone that doesn't live in a 3rd world country. its not a good idea to share wealth evenly throughout the world. It may sound like a good idea to do it but its not, considering the amount of money in the world versues the amount of people distributing land and wealth equally would only cause world wide poverty, not equal wealth.

How can freedom be acheived through the restriction of freedom? sounds very Orwellian to me. the closest thing to complete freedom was the very thing karl marx fought against, Laizze-faire capitalism. In this nothing worked without a desicion, no one HAD to do anything. Industrailists didn't HAVE to make factories, and like wise workers didn't HAVE to work. it's a question of what the person valued, and it was obviouse that both the industrialists and the workers valued the same object, money. Only they both used money in different ways, workers to survive and industrialists to grow their industries (and of course theyre own personal gratification). was it the great? not really, i mean theres some good things about capitalism, but its not perfect. its probably the best system for individual freedom we have, but definetly not perfect.


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« #21 : September 21, 2007, 05:26:58 AM »

Never cared for flower-boys ::)...


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« #22 : September 21, 2007, 06:07:47 AM »

yeah im sorry sonny but im not too crazy about having the checka in place of our police force or commisars instead of teachers or bosses. and again even if you did try to strictly follow the communist doctrine it would still fail. all People are (to an extant) greedy and selfish. there are normal rational selfishness/greed (the pursuit of happiness is a selfish goal, being as it is a goal to make your self happy) and irrational "evil" selfishness/greed (robbery murder ect) communism trys to destroy one of the most basic/fundamental human instincts, the right of property. Just think about it, whats the first word you learn other then mommy or daddy? "Mine", mine is the most primary instinct known to man, to give up this instinct is to give up on life.
The need to own is more of a result of the prevailing system than a basic human need, IMO.

Here is something I posted a while ago in another thread:
Of MFing course communism is impossible idea. I just said so in my last post and also said that it's the reason why I'm not for communism. It could work in small communities, with only tens or hundreds people, not in bigger scale.

Capitalism is great system for the strong ones who have the strenght to survive. But what about the weak, poor and sick ones? They are human beings too. That someone is weak doesn't mean that he/she isn't  as valuable as the winners. They deserve the same benefits as everyone else. On the other hand, the prevailing western system pushes people to the edge of insanity: they work their asses off because if they don't, they are nobodies. And at the same time Asians are working their asses off that you could see your rare favorite movie on new, nice, shiny DVD with superb extras. And they don't get paid a shit if even at all! capitalism doesn't work as it is supposed to, either. The idea is that the ones who work harder get more money, right? Well, it's not happening as long as Asians do hard 16 hour workdays just to get food and water and some clothes.   

I see Whaletoe's point, and good point that is. I can't solve that problem.

As Aki Kaurismäki has said, as soon as every Asian wants a refrigerator, modern society and the whole environment, Earth, is gonna collapse.

We are doomed! ;D   
The original thread: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2016.60


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Tuco the ugly
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« #23 : September 21, 2007, 06:26:37 AM »

Can't say I'm a great fan of communism, but don't feed me fairy tales that capitalism is the only way out... Please...

Sure, it's nice to think that when you live in the USA, Canada, Europe, Australia or Japan. But if you live in Guatemala, Belize or Cambodia it doesn't work. As long as there are this countries called The Third World Countries, the dream of everybody works and gets paid for his work can live on. Because it's easy to buy a kilogram of bananas for 1.5$, and think it's a beautiful world, while some kid in Brazil works his ass out for 2 cents a day. Sure, capitalism is great, when you have someone to work for you. But this little dream of ours is gonna stop one day, and then we'll be in deep shit. We'll live in a world like in RoboCop or Blade Runner, we'll see our democracy and freedom then.

And I completely agree with my friend moviesceleton.
You don't need 3 televisions and two cars to live normally, SOMEONE MADE YOU BELIEVE IT IS YOUR HUMAN RIGHT.

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« #24 : September 21, 2007, 09:49:03 AM »

You have a right to get what you earn. If you work hard and become a millionaire, then you're damned right to spend it on extravagances - it's your money. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, i.e. heirs and heirresses, who don't work a day in their lives, but what's wrong with people who worked hard to get a lot of money having a lot? I don't see it's fair that Bill Gates get all his money divided up just because he's rich (even though I've come to hate Microsoft). It's not his fault there's poverty in the world, and if he didn't have all of his money it wouldn't necessarily be going to the poor anyway.

We've had this argument before though. I don't think Communism is even a good idea in theory, any more than Fascism or Theocracy is. I find collectivist ideologies repulsive and anti-human.

On the other hand, I don't care for the Beatles either. . . so I'll abstain from voting. :P

« : September 21, 2007, 09:51:45 AM Groggy »


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Atlas2112
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« #25 : September 21, 2007, 09:55:57 AM »

You have a right to get what you earn.
this is what i mean by right to property, thank you groggy i was about to type something up until i say this


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« #26 : September 21, 2007, 10:06:45 AM »

Quote
You have a right to get what you earn.
You have the right to do many things, but that doesn't mean they're good things.

The Bible says something about being rich. I'll leave it to you Groggy to find it out. When you find that, there's another thing the Bible says - about laws. Then we can discuss.

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« #27 : September 21, 2007, 10:21:53 AM »

Oh, I see. Everyone should an ascetic. That's nice. And completely moronic.

And you should keep in mind before you say anything that I'm an agnostic at best, an atheist at worst, so I honestly couldn't give a crap about what the Bible says in this or pretty much any instance.

« : September 21, 2007, 10:23:27 AM Groggy »


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Tuco the ugly
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« #28 : September 21, 2007, 10:30:58 AM »

Pretty strange for a Republican.
They have this habit to wave the Bible in every occasion, in order to show how much they believe in Him, yelling God bless America! in every chance they get.
So now you're saying that you don't really believe in God? That it's juts a farce?

Finally someone admitted, Republicans are communists.

I rest my case.  8)

« : September 21, 2007, 10:32:00 AM Tuco the ugly »
Whalestoe
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« #29 : September 21, 2007, 10:45:08 AM »

No, no, no... Republicans are fascists silly goose! ;)

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