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: THE PONCHO...  ( 32218 )
aaronson
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« #30 : April 28, 2003, 02:17:01 AM »

that is for sure a triology

1-gbu:blondie get a puncho

2-fafdm get a hole in the hat by colonel mortimer

3-fod he got the puncho and the hat with a hole

leone is the greatest but is only error was to utilise two time t :)he actors (but they where so good)

Very clever and so logical .
 But it seems that in GBU the hat was already holed.And in FDM, Colonel Mortimer shot three or four bullets through
the hat.  Making only one hole ?   ;)


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« #31 : May 01, 2003, 10:51:23 AM »

Sergio Leone himself said (in an intervew with Joel Simsolo) that gbu was the prolog of the others. After Gbu, clint goes in the south.
Sergio said that the right order is:
1 gbu
2 fod
3 ffdm

If you look at the weapons used in the 3 movies, that can be the right order: in gbu, clint uses a colt navy 1851, lee van cleef a remington army (the confederate model, i think). Those weapons were really used since the civil war (in the 1860's).
In fod, everybody has a peacemaker, and ramon has a winchester (i don't know the model: 66, 73, 76 or 94, but it must be the 73 or 76). The peacemaker, which real name is colt army 73, was used after 1876.
In ffdm, mortimer has a buntline special, used after 1895.
We all know that Leone isn't always realistic with the weapons, but that works with those 3 movies.


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« #32 : May 16, 2003, 02:32:57 AM »

did marlon brando as "rio" were a poncho in a couple of scenes in  "one eyed jacks?" cira 1961 ?   ???

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« #33 : May 16, 2003, 05:45:22 PM »

He wore one in the Appalosa.


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« #34 : August 16, 2003, 01:56:45 PM »

well this is for the people who thinks that the three films are not connected.OKey i have a strong reason why is the 3 films are connected,,....or i think the last two is because IN GBU  at the end of the film  .....tuco and  blondie kills Angeleyes...and then he fall in to that hole or i dont know how to say that ....  AND THEN   BLONDIE (JOe ,MOnco) shoots Angel eyes (Mortimer)  black hat   on him........now think about that

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« #35 : August 26, 2003, 05:56:00 AM »


thanks for Appalosa, Cigar Joe (i hadn't see that you had answered me before...). In fact, i didn't see the movie, i just saw the box of a dvd with marlon Brando with a poncho, but i didn't care to the title.

Anyway, good good good point, Levente17. Almost an evidence... but i think that the three movies have only a few connections, which are just references. Leone said himself to Simsolo that the poncho at the end of GBU was a joke, a private joke. I also said "the trilogie is like a circle". This is cinema, cinema is not real, and Leone's way to do cinema is to film his dreams, trying to convince us that it is real...

We all believe him since we see his movies... but after, thinking to all those things (the poncho, all the actors playing different caracters...), we anderstand that Leone got us... he's just playing with the audience (us).

(i'ms sorry, every time i try to say difficult things in english, i'm not sure that you will be able to anderstand...)


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« #36 : August 27, 2003, 04:01:48 AM »

You are well understood.


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« #37 : August 27, 2003, 11:38:06 AM »

First of all I think it important to establish some kind of timeline for the movies.  First we have GBU which takes place in March of 1862.  Then we have FFD which takes place sometime after 1873.  Then we have FFDM which takes place sometime after 1881.  So by all means it would be hard to imagine the character not showing any aging effects in a span of about 20 years.  Unless he was some kind of mytictcal Christ like figure.  Next we have the names.  Blondie in GBU.  Manco in FFDM.  And Joe in FFD.  Now Blondie was a nickname hung on Clints character by Tuco.  Even though not really blond he was more than likely making some kind of reference to his north of the border roots.  Light hair, light complexion, etc.  Then we have Joe in FFD which is another name that is not to be taken to seriously.  The old gravedigger throws it around like Buddy, Mac, Chum or Pal.  Then we come to FFDM in which his name is Manco, which literally means maimed or one handed.  We have the sheriff tell Mortimer  He calls himself Manco.   Then there are the similarities  between all the characters between each film.  The Clothing is the same in all three movies.  Angel Eyes give Blondie the wardrobe used in FFD and FFDM  in the scene when they hook up after he tortures Tuco.  Plus the Poncho tie in at the end of GBU.  Next we have the same horse in all three movies.  Same Clint squint in all three movies.  And lastly the most important tie in is the leather hand brace he wears on his right hand in FFDM.  The hand brace is a direct result of Chicos foot stomp in FFD.  His right hand is maimed and he can not use it for anything.(hence the name Manco)  He does absolutely everything left handed.  Lights cigar, deals cards, karate chops, drinks, etc.  Everything that is except shooting.  He still shoots right handed with the aid of the hand brace.  (Adding to the mythical character)

Just my two cents worth... :)


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« #38 : August 28, 2003, 08:18:41 AM »

Even I change my clothes over 20 years......

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« #39 : September 12, 2003, 11:59:22 AM »

My own belief is that they are a trilogy, and the GBU does come first in the series.  THe thing we have to keep in mind is that these films take place in the "Alternate Reality of Spaghetti Westerns", if you will.
Clints outfits and characteristics and mannerisms make him the same charachter in all the films.  
I would indeed change my clothes after 20 years as well, but Leone has Clint keep things the same so we can associate him as the same charachter.

That's how I see it anyway.

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« #40 : September 16, 2003, 06:11:01 AM »

I t's a very interesting but endless debate. The common details of the three characters are numerous but there are also many details of difference.

In fact I think that Sergio would overall create at specific product immediately recognizable, well-known and never imitated: the beared ,dirty gun-fighter wearing a Poncho and a fur jacket.A sort of trade -mark product , a strong symbol of  Leone-Spagh -movie ,very far from Hollywood but also very far from all the others italian gun-fighter.
Remember Humphrey Bogart, he seemed to play the same guy wearing the same white waterproof and the same grey hat,remember Steves Reeves and his peplum, Jean Marais and his sword, Fred  Astair and his shoes....all are "archetype" and seemed playing the same character in different films at different time. Remember Terence Hill...  

It doesn't matter if he is called Manco, Joe, Blondie: Clint played "El gringo" as Gian-Maria played "El mexicano loco " and Lee " The old man in black suit" and Mario "the awful and brutal fat man" .Archetype, only archetype...


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« #41 : October 11, 2003, 06:32:25 AM »

Sergio Leone himself said (in an intervew with Joel Simsolo) that gbu was the prolog of the others. After Gbu, clint goes in the south.
Sergio said that the right order is:
1 gbu
2 fod
3 ffdm
Interesting! You don't happen to have a link to that interview?


Quote
If you look at the weapons used in the 3 movies, that can be the right order: in gbu, clint uses a colt navy 1851, lee van cleef a remington army (the confederate model, i think). Those weapons were really used since the civil war (in the 1860's).
In fod, everybody has a peacemaker, and ramon has a winchester (i don't know the model: 66, 73, 76 or 94, but it must be the 73 or 76). The peacemaker, which real name is colt army 73, was used after 1876.
In ffdm, mortimer has a buntline special, used after 1895.

We all know that Leone isn't always realistic with the weapons, but that works with those 3 movies.
I would be careful with using the props for dating the year that the movies are set (as Sergio Leone's films are known to have anachronisms - he took a lot of artistic license).  

However I believe there are some obvious clues from props that connot be ignored. If I remember correctly there is a newspaper dated 1872 in FFDM (with a headline about and picture of Manco). I also seem to recall that the latest dates visible in the graveyard in FOD are also from the 1870's. I could be wrong as I am taking this from memory.

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« #42 : February 24, 2004, 05:19:51 AM »

Sorry to be dragging up another old topic but here's my thoughts...
most of us seem to agree that the films would be set over 15-20 years, in which time clint's character shows no signs of aging. However, it's always been common in literature for heroes to be ageless as they move through time - e.g. biggles, which i used to read as a kid, fought as a young man in the 1st world war, then again in the 2nd world. he carried on having adventures (with no mention of him growing older) in the post war period up til the author died in the 60s. Look at the Simpsons as well - they always comment on contemporary issues, but Bart and Lisa have been kids since about 1989. So I reckon Blondie/Manco is the same sort of thing.


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« #43 : July 25, 2004, 10:53:41 AM »

as he takes this poncho from a SOLDIER i think it wasnt that rare..every soldier had one.. so to me it was a usual piece of clothing and I dunno for sure if it refers to a prequel or something


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« #44 : July 26, 2004, 07:58:14 AM »

Very clever and so logical .
 But it seems that in GBU the hat was already holed.And in FDM, Colonel Mortimer shot three or four bullets through
the hat.  Making only one hole ?   ;)

Colonel Mortimer was such a good shot, he only made one hole, and put the rest of the bulletts through the same hole....  ;)


I still don't think those movies were meant to be formally connected, they are like a series of adventures starring the same characters. And I would not think too much of the guns either. Leone knew his guns, but he disregarded all realism in favor of aestetics, every time there was a conflict between the two. There are, for instance, several cannons in the battle that were not from the period, but Leone liked the sight of them.    





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