How good is DYS?

[Groggy]

You're big on pedantic details elsewhere.

Wait a minute Jenkins. In regards to your yes reply to my post further up the thread: are you agreeing with me or saying that OUATITW would have been better had we seen the shootout?

[The clint]

I'd say Duck You Sucker is definitely Leone's odd film out. There is a very abrupt change of atmosphere around half-way through, and the whole film is weighed down by a strong topically political scent. It is, all things considered a very competently made film (apart from that awful wipe edit around two hours in).

[Groggy]

Rewatching the film last night I found some problems with it - whether they're problems I've had before or am just noticing them now is open to question, as I loved the extended cut the first viewing but always found fault with the 138 minute version. The pacing is occasionally a bit off - the quick transitions from the battle at the bridge to the grotto massacre to the execution scene seems abrupt and rushed - which kind of bothered me. I'm also not sure why the flashbacks need to be as long as they are - the final flashback in particular was almost ridiculously drawn-out. And I still maintan Gunther Ruiz is one of the most pathetic movie villains ever, his henchmen obviously graduates of the Stormtrooper Marksman Academy, so there's not a great deal of dramatic tension in the later parts of the film. Not to mention there are numerous plotholes that are never adequately explained (Why does Mallory kill Aschenbach? How does Villega escape from Ruiz?). I still think it's a great film, but it's definitely a problematic one. Hope to expand this little comment to a full-length review ASAP.

[stanton]

Actually it's not Sean who kills Aschenbach but Juan.

[Groggy]

Actually it's not Sean who kills Aschenbach but Juan.

Yeah, but John was going to. And if he wasn't, that only raises more questions.

[The Firecracker]

Yeah, but John was going to. And if he wasn't, that only raises more questions.

Actually, Mallory had no desire to off his employer.
He set the dynamite to the church because he thought the German and his men were Juan and company.

The real question is why would John want to kill Juan and his extended family?
The answer lies in the desert sequence that was cut from the final product.


As for your other question...

Villega snitched on his comrades...Ruiz let him go for cooperating.

[Groggy]

Villega snitched on his comrades...Ruiz let him go for cooperating.

Perhaps. But that doesn't make much sense, since Ruiz has to know Villega is a major leader and isn't likely to just retire afterwards.

[The Firecracker]

Perhaps. But that doesn't make much sense, since Ruiz has to know Villega is a major leader and isn't likely to just retire afterwards.

But Villega helped identify other big names like himself and Ruiz had them killed.

Without these guys there is no one to organize the revolution.
 Villega's life for dozens and dozens of these men is more than a fair enough bargain.
I think Ruiz's figuring is on the level.

[Groggy]

Ruiz doesn't seem like the sort of guy to cut a deal like that though. He has Villega, why let him go? It's not like there would be any retribution for a double-cross, and all it takes is one leader to make trouble and organize another cell. Maybe Ruiz is an idiot, but I doubt it.

[The Firecracker]

You talk as if you know the guy.

We don't spend much time with him remember?

[Groggy]

We had lunch today. I had a few pointed questions to ask him on this issue, and for the most part he declined to comment. He didn't seem like a very nice guy though, so I'm not too surprised.

[stanton]

Yeah, in the real world they would surely shot Villega after he gave them what they want. Villega could with his betrayal only safe himself the pain, not the death.

But if we don't see something we are also free to search for our own explanations, even if they are a bit improbable. Maybe Villega fooled Ruiz by offering him in a convincing way to be a mole for him amongst the revolutionaries. Maybe he was freed before he got executed. Maybe ... whatever you can think of. It all may be unlikely, but it all is also possible.

Of course with the desert sequence Sean's attempt to blow Juan and his family away is easier to understand, but still, even without it, there was enough shown about Juan being a pain in the ass and together with showing Sean drunk and in a really bad mood, it always was enough explanation to me for the scene. At least I never thought about something missing there, or not being logic in the context of the scene and the film.
Still, I can perfectly understand why Leone decided to leave it out.

[Groggy]

I can't say I really mind the desert scene missing, to be honest. DYS misses it about as much as OUATITW misses the beating scene.

[sinisterplague]

Will somebody PM me and tell me what happens in the desert scene? I've seen the newly released version and I don't know what part your talking about.

[Novecento]

It's absolutely perfect. One of the greatest films ever made. The whole movie is beautiful - the scenery and cinematography, the characters and their interactions , Morricone's musical score. Absolutely flawless. Incredible. Mind-blowingly good.

Combine the action and overall entertainment of GBU with the heart of Once Upon a Time in the West and you get "DUCK YOU SUCKER".

As much as it pains me to say it, I think I too prefer DYS to GBU.

In fact I would go so far as to say that the whole "Once Upon a Time" trilogy is superior to the "Dollars" trilogy. And they're both awesome trilogies!

Aren't we all lucky that in the end Sergio decided to direct this one himself!