Red River (1948)

[drinkanddestroy]

Thanks for the info, DJ. I think I'll wait a little; considering that I've seen the movie a few times, and it plays frequently on TCM, I am not dying to get it on the day of its release. So, I am sure that shortly after release, I can get it at a good price (whether from Amazon itself or individual sellers), and I would rather wait till I am sure the quality is good. There are occasions that a BRD release is not an improvement over the DVD, even with Criterion (eg. THE EARRINGS OF MADAME DE....) so I'd rather wait a little till I hear that all is well.

[Novecento]

Yeah. Both dual format.

Hey, I just got the word from a poster over at hometheaterforum. org. Amazon has the wrong list price up, so they are giving an incredible discount on this title. Most of these titles go for $40 SRP, discounted to 27.99 on amazon (at best). However, they are currently offering the 27.99 price for this title even though it should actually be a 50 dollar set. If you wait for the July B&N sale, you can do a little better: $25. But if you want your set on the day of release, you may decide a 3 dollar premium is worthwhile. The thing is, if you want to go that route you'd better lock in the 27.99 price before amazon discovers their mistake (they will honor whatever you sign up for). Lock it in today; you can always cancel up until the release date without being charged.

It's not a mistake. It will stay like this for a week or so at the very early pre-order stage and then go to the 34.99 price.

[drinkanddestroy]

But won't it go down again a few weeks after the release date? Assuming that I don't need to have it on Day 1, is it not wise for me to wait till a few weeks after it is released, when it'll probably be selling for less (either from Amazon directly or individual sellers)? Ditto for ACE IN THE HOLE: Do you think I should lock in the $27.99 price or wait till a month or two after the release date?

[dave jenkins]

This looks great: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Red-River-Blu-ray/56981/#Review

A bit pricey, though, what? I think I'll wait for the July B&N sale to pick this up.

UPDATE: Oops, I forgot this was a 50 dollar SRP, and that I already had the price locked in for 27.99. Yeah, I might not wait for July just to save a couple of bucks.

[dave jenkins]

CC BD added: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews8/red-river.htm

[drinkanddestroy]

I assume that the version of the movie they are calling the "pre-release version" is the one that is on the DVD that's been available until now? And it's the same version that they show on TCM?

[dave jenkins]

Yes, the version with the written titles for all the narrative bridges. The version with Walter Brennan doing voice-over for the narrative bridges is, I believe, what is being called the theatrical version.

[drinkanddestroy]

DJ's BRD has shipped!

[dave jenkins]

Not only that, it's been delivered to my local post office! I should have it in my hand by 1:30 today!!

[dave jenkins]

While we're waiting, Drink, you can read what your idol Savant has to say about the new release: http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s4419red.html

Money quote: " Bogdanovich says that the real cut of Red River should be the theatrical, with the ending from the preview version."

[drinkanddestroy]

When you watch it, I assune you will watch the theatrical version first, let us know the differences. Besides the narration, we know that the ending is shorter, let us know what else is different. (unfortuunately, I am sure the ending sucks in both versions!) thanks

[dave jenkins]

Red River CC Blu in da house! What a monster--I was forgetting the novel comes with it.

Yeah, I'll watch the theatrical as I've never seen it before. I'll give you my impressions tomorrow.

[drinkanddestroy]

Money quote: " Bogdanovich says that the real cut of Red River should be the theatrical, with the ending from the preview version."

what does Bogdanovich mean by "real cut"? does he mean "the cut that Hawks preferred"? or "the cut that was really shown in American theaters in 1948"?
(if the latter, that would mean that the version this BRD is calling the "theatrical cut" isn't the real theatrical cut)

[dave jenkins]

He means ideal, in that it would be closest to Hawks' intentions. If you recall, Howard Hughes was unhappy with the way Hawks shot the ending of RR. To him it was too close to the way Hughes ended The Outlaw (a picture that Hawks worked on, btw). He threatened to sue. Hawks was on his way out the door to his next assignment and didn't want the hassle. He told Christian Nyby, his editor, to find a way to placate Hughes. Hughes and Nyby got together and recut the ending--the ending of the theatrical cut. That cut then went out for distribution in 1948.

Having seen the theatrical cut now, I'm with Bogdanovich. Hughes really made a hash of the ending: you can't tell what's going on in the final bit of gunplay between Wayne and Clift. You really need the ending as we have it in the "preview" cut to understand the scene. Savant says, fine, let's just watch the preview cut. But Hawks hated the preview cut, which slowed things down, lengthened the runtime unnecessarily, and demanded a lot of quick reading on the part of the audience (and how do idiot-proof so much text, anyway?). The reason he called Walter Brennan back to do the narration was that he was dissatisfied with that earlier cut and felt he had a way to fix things. Now here's something interesting: until I watched the theatrical cut last night, I hadn't realized that Brennan's narration was done in character. I'd assumed he'd just read the text as it appeared on screen in the preview version, but with the opticals of the text removed for the theatrical cut. The opticals are out, yeah (except for the very first introductory one), but the Brennan narration is different material entirely. He doesn't just bridge sequences, he speaks as Groot and comments on what we see. The tone of the film is thereby changed considerably. We get less of The First Cattle Drive on the Chisholm Trail, 1865, and more That's the Way I Remember It, Sonny. I much prefer this approach myself--all that written text is fussy and pretentious. The version with Brennan's narration is more like the popular entertainment it should be.

So, ideally, we need a version that is mostly the theatrical version, but reverts to the preview cut at the end.

[drinkanddestroy]

but the version that this BRD calls the "theatrical version" is indeed the exact version shown in American theaters in 1948?