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: Red River (1948)  ( 41458 )
drinkanddestroy
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« #45 : February 15, 2014, 08:17:16 PM »

I am glad to hear about this, but I was unaware of there being 2 versions of the movie.... Do I understand you correctly that the difference between the two is that the other version has Walter Brennan narrating the story instead of the viewer reading it in the pages of that book? That's the only difference between the two versions?




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« #46 : February 16, 2014, 09:05:59 AM »

I am glad to hear about this, but I was unaware of there being 2 versions of the movie.... Do I understand you correctly that the difference between the two is that the other version has Walter Brennan narrating the story instead of the viewer reading it in the pages of that book? That's the only difference between the two versions?
It's not the only difference (apparently, I've only seen the written text version), but it is the principal one. There is a note in the current MoC booklet about the differences. It has already been transcribed and posted over at Criterion Forums (not by me) so I'll paste it here for your edification:
Quote
The Two Versions by Peter Labuza:

"As is the case with a number of Howard Hawks Films, including Scarface and The Big Sleep, there are two versions of Hawks's Red River. They are known as the "Book Version" and the "Voice Version", which refers to the main difference between the two. In the Book Version, the film includes a number of intertitles of handwritten passages from a book entitled Early Tales of Texas. In the Voice Version, Walter Brennan's Groot provides a voiceover of the same material. The Book Version runs six and a half minutes longer; part of this comes from the longer amount of time the camera lingers on the pages of the book so viewers can read it, but there are other differences as well. The Voice Version trims a number of scenes down, notably Cherry's description of the beautiful woman who told him about the railroad in Abilene (who is strongly alluded to as Tess in Borden Chase's original short story). The Voice Version also has a slightly different score, which is much more instrumental and grandiose compared to the often more vocal but muted score of the Book Version. The other most notable difference between the two variations is the elongated final battle between Dunson and Matthew in the Book Version; the Voice Version eliminates some of Dunson's dialogue ("Then I'll make you draw.") and a number of shots of Matthew's steadfast eyes.

Hawks claims in his interview that the Book Version was the first cut of the film and the Voice Version was what was originally released in theatres in 1948. Some scholars note that the Voice Version may have been created after Howard Hughes demanded cuts to the finale because of its similarity to the ending Hawks wrote for The Outlaw. The Book Version, wrongly touted in 1984 as the "Restored Director's Cut", debuted on home video and became the now standard copy of the film that is readily available. Hawks claims he only saw this later version when it screened on television, and tells Peter Bogdanovich in his interview with him, "It was meant to be with narration." In his biography of Hawks, Todd McCarthy proposes that the Book Version may have been prepared for not just television but also foreign markets.

Critical opinion is divided on which version is better. Filmmaker and critic Dan Sallitt prefers the voiceover to the text, but notes other ambivlance: "I feel as if aspects of the climax are a little choppy and overedited in the short version...I also think that the scenes of Clift's anxiety at Wayne's approach, which are reduced in the short version, really help the film feel more like Hawks and less like Borden Chase." Bogdanovich and scholar John Belton refer the Voice Version, the latter noting that "its tone changes slightly" without the voiceover. On the other hand, film historian and scholar Gerald Mast argued the voice and text is simply a matter of taste, but the Book Version has the weaker ending because "the shorter duel eliminates essential narrative details."



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« #47 : February 16, 2014, 11:50:23 AM »

The last sentence must be wrong. Doesn't make much sense with the book version.

I think the German version was always the book version.

A film with a great ending btw. ;)


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« #48 : February 16, 2014, 12:07:46 PM »

The last sentence must be wrong. Doesn't make much sense with the book version.
Hmm, yeah, maybe he meant to say The Voice Version has the weaker ending because the shorter duel eliminates etc.

Either way the ending sucks, btw. :D



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« #49 : February 16, 2014, 06:42:21 PM »

Anyone agree that this is a top 5 AW (maybe even #1) even with the shitty ending?


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« #50 : February 16, 2014, 07:54:00 PM »

Top 10, anyway.



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« #51 : February 16, 2014, 11:50:56 PM »

Can you name 5 AW's better than Red River? I can't. The only ones that MAY be are THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE, RIO BRAVO, and MCCABE & MRS. MILLER. FORT APACHE is up there to. That's all. (STAGECOACH  is one tiny notch  below.)



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« #52 : February 17, 2014, 02:08:53 AM »

As much as I like Red River, but it is not amongst my 20 favourite westerns, maybe not even 50. At least there are lots of similar good US westerns.

The Wild Bunch is on another level. Pat Garrett also. There are others like Little Big Man or Hombre. There are so many i really like and enjoy.


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« #53 : February 17, 2014, 03:54:24 AM »

Its up there top 20-50 for sure.


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« #54 : February 17, 2014, 01:55:19 PM »

The stampede scene in Australia is pretty close to the one in Red River, except of course the former is started by saboteurs.

I wish Australia had "homaged" the start of the cattle drive by coping the start of the drive in Red River.  I would've done that, was thinking that when I saw it in the theater..

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« #55 : February 19, 2014, 06:40:45 AM »

Disc details are now up:
Quote
SPECIAL FEATURES

• New 4K digital restoration of the rarely presented original theatrical release version, the preferred cut of director Howard Hawks, with monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray
• 2K restoration of the longer version of Red River
• New interview with filmmaker Peter Bogdanovich about Red River and the two versions
• New interview with critic Molly Haskell about Hawks and Red River
• New interview with western scholar Lee Clark Mitchell about western genre literature
• Audio excerpts of a 1972 conversation between Hawks and Bogdanovich
• Excerpts from a 1970 audio interview with novelist and screenwriter Borden Chase
• More!
• PLUS: A booklet featuring an essay by critic Geoffrey O'Brien and a 1991 interview with Hawks's longtime editor Christian Nyby; a new paperback edition of Chase's original novel, previously out of print
The re-published novel is a nice touch.



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« #56 : February 19, 2014, 08:56:59 AM »

Thanks for the info, Mr. Jenkins. I'm definitely gonna purchase this BRD, and also the one for ACE IN THE HOLE. They're both among my 20 favorite films of all time.


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« #57 : February 19, 2014, 09:25:10 AM »

I think I'm satisfied with my DVD of AitH. But I will certainly get this new Red River Blu.



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« #58 : February 19, 2014, 09:44:10 AM »

Well I don't own either of the DVD's; I've been waiting for the BRD :-) ..... Are they both Criterion?


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« #59 : February 19, 2014, 11:04:29 AM »

Yeah. Both dual format.

Hey, I just got the word from a poster over at hometheaterforum. org. Amazon has the wrong list price up, so they are giving an incredible discount on this title. Most of these titles go for $40 SRP, discounted to 27.99 on amazon (at best). However, they are currently offering the 27.99 price for this title even though it should actually be a 50 dollar set. If you wait for the July B&N sale, you can do a little better: $25. But if you want your set on the day of release, you may decide a 3 dollar premium is worthwhile. The thing is, if you want to go that route you'd better lock in the 27.99 price before amazon discovers their mistake (they will honor whatever you sign up for). Lock it in today; you can always cancel up until the release date without being charged.

« : February 19, 2014, 11:19:59 AM dave jenkins »


"McFilms are commodities and, as such, must be QA'd according to industry standards."
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