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« #15225 : August 08, 2015, 10:38:51 AM »

The Loneliness of the Long-Distance Runner (1962) 8.5/10 (TCM)

Some people think you can't like a movie without liking the main character. I liked this movie very much and I have no use for the main character.
I liked the main character very much and have no use for the movie.



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« #15226 : August 08, 2015, 06:48:41 PM »

So you like people who do nothing but think up ways to steal?


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« #15227 : August 08, 2015, 06:51:18 PM »

I mean, Courtenay was terrific. But the character was not someone I sympathized with. Sure, I feel bad for the terrible family situation he had, but this is a bad guy who is a thief and I feel nothing for him ... But I loved the movie.


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« #15228 : August 08, 2015, 10:10:29 PM »

So you like people who do nothing but think up ways to steal?
He's a rebel against an unfair system. The world depicted in the film--not our actual world, but an abstraction that eliminates all the subtleties of our world--is evil. The rebel against such an order is someone to be admired, especially for his steadfast determination. He is implacable, and therefore attractive.

Unhappily, since the world depicted is not really the way things are, the victory the hero achieves is hollow.



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« #15229 : August 09, 2015, 11:14:44 AM »

Slow West - John Maclean

A pretty good western with some 70s style, without looking old fashioned. It begins more like one of these "realistic" westerns, but becomes more genre bound towards the end. At the end the dream becomes true, but only after the paradise was destroyed. 8/10

It is a British western shot in New Zealand and also in Scotland for the flashbacks.

And Michael Fassbender often looks like Burt Lancaster, especially when he is chewing on a cigar.


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« #15230 : August 09, 2015, 12:08:52 PM »

He's a rebel against an unfair system. The world depicted in the film--not our actual world, but an abstraction that eliminates all the subtleties of our world--is evil. The rebel against such an order is someone to be admired, especially for his steadfast determination. He is implacable, and therefore attractive.

Unhappily, since the world depicted is not really the way things are, the victory the hero achieves is hollow.

I don't know; I actually thought this movie attempts to be 'real' and that's why i can't like a thief.
I have watched and loved and rooted for many movie gangsters - but they are not living in a real world; they are living in 'movie gangster world," so I can root for Cody Jarrett or Tom Powers in this make-believe world. But when a movie is going for realism, it's not supposed to be fantasy, then real-world morals apply, and I will hate the thief.

When you talk about the world Courtenay is rebelling against, do you mean the prison authorities, or the world on the outside before he got to prison? or both?
On the prison authorities, I can agree with you. These are not people I admire and to the extent that he sticks it in their faces, great.
But if you mean the world on the outside, then no, I can't buy that. I mean, his family situation is terrible, and i certainly feel for anyone who goes through something like that, but is stealing from the baker part of that supposed rebelling against the world? The baker who did him no harm?
Or is this because of that nonsense about how the workers (who make no financial investment and bear no financial risk nevertheless) should be the ones who reap the company's profits? The guy is  thief, plain and simple. And a commie. Like most thieves and Commies (sorry for being redundant) they justify it with these 'philosophies' about workers and all that shit. He's a lazy bum and a thief who wants to do nothing but steal.

Are the victims of his thievery (the baker, the car owner) part of the "order" he is rebelling against? Grouping the world into a single "order" or "system" or "establishment" again is an easy way to justify doing whatever you want to do, stealing from whoever you want top steal from , etc.

Anyway, I am not doubting that your interpretation of the movie's theme is correct. What I am saying is, since this 'theme' is bullshit, I don't sympathize with the character - but I can enjoy a well-made  movie regardless of whether I agree with the theme.

It seems to me that you - and you are pretty consistent about this - don't enjoy a movie whose theme or political viewpoint you disagree with. You find the character in some way attractive but the theme doesn't work for you. For me, it's enjoyable, it's entertaining, I can enjoy it even if the theme is BS  ;)

« : August 10, 2015, 12:28:56 AM drinkanddestroy »

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« #15231 : August 09, 2015, 03:54:49 PM »


When you talk about the world Courtenay is rebelling against, do you mean the prison authorities, or the world on the outside before he got to prison? or both?
On the prison authorities, I can agree with you. These are not people I admire and to the extent that he sticks it in their faces, great.
But if you mean the world on the outside, then no, I can't buy that. I mean, his family situation is terrible, and i certainly feel for anyone who goes through something like that, but is stealing from the baker part of that supposed rebelling against the world? The baker who did him no harm?
Or is this because of that nonsense about how the workers (who make no financial investment and bear no financial risk nevertheless) should be the ones who reap the company's profits? The guy is  thief, plain and simple. And a commie. Like most thieves and Commies (sorry for being redundant) they justify it with these 'philosophies' about workers and all that shit. He's a lazy bum and a thief who wants to do nothing but steal.

Are the victims of his thievery (the baker, the car owner) part of the "order" he is rebelling against? Grouping the world into a single "order" or "system" or "establishment" again is an easy way to justify doing whatever you want to do, stealing from whoever you want top steal from , etc.

Anyway, I am not doubting that your interpretation of the movie's theme is correct. What I am saying is, since this 'theme' is bullshit, I don't sympathize with the character - but I can a well-made  movie regardless of whether I agree with the theme.

It seems to me that you - and you are pretty consistent about this - don't enjoy a movie whose theme or political viewpoint you disagree with. You find the character in some way attractive but the theme doesn't work for you. For me, it's enjoyable, it's entertaining, I can enjoy it even if the theme is BS  ;)
For the filmmakers to build an effective argument for their commie worldview, they have to skew reality. That's what happens in Runner--the prison is supposed to represent society as a whole. All the world's wardens are always trying to get the inmates to make nice and go along. For a commie, property is theft, so stealing back what has already been stolen (because the means of production are not in the hands of the workers to begin with) is no crime, it is a revolutionary act. And it doesn't matter if you're punished for the act, because even outside the prison workers are being exploited every day.

The film does a good job of lulling the audience into expecting the main character to win his final long-distance run, but when it's revealed that the guy was just pretending to sell out so he could punch the system twice as hard it becomes a big fist-pumping moment for the audience. It's effective dramaturgy, and makes the main character attractive. But since the whole set-up is B.S., the movie fails for me. Not only do I not agree with the film's theme, I don't even accept the film's view of reality. This is not unique to this film, of course. There are thousands of movies that fail for me for not providing a true picture of the world we live in.

Occasionally, there are films that are philosophically incoherent that I like nonetheless. One example is The Fountainhead. Ayn Rand's understanding of intellectual property rights are, to put it kindly, eccentric, but coming after hundreds of Hollywood films filled with CommieThink, The Fountainhead provides a refreshing view.



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« #15232 : August 09, 2015, 10:40:49 PM »

spoiler alert for The Loneliness of the Long-Distance Runner

but when it's revealed that the guy was just pretending to sell out so he could punch the system twice as hard

(Not that it affects this discussion much, but) do you really think Courtenay was planning all along to throw the race?

I thought it was a last-second decision: I thought he trained hard all along and was indeed trying to win the race, but as he got closer to the finish line, and all the thoughts were flashing in his mind – how he wanted to screw the establishment, how he didn't want to give the governor the victory, etc. – he decided on the spot to throw the race.


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« #15233 : August 09, 2015, 11:43:22 PM »

spoiler alert for The Loneliness of the Long-Distance Runner

(Not that it affects this discussion much, but) do you really think Courtenay was planning all along to throw the race?

I thought it was a last-second decision: I thought he trained hard all along and was indeed trying to win the race, but as he got closer to the finish line, and all the thoughts were flashing in his mind – how he wanted to screw the establishment, how he didn't want to give the governor the victory, etc. – he decided on the spot to throw the race.
That's a possible interpretation.



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« #15234 : August 11, 2015, 11:11:18 PM »

Sahara (1943) - 7/10. "An international platoon fights off Nazis in World War II Africa." (TCM) A nice cast: Bogart, J. Carrol Naish, Bruce Bennett, Dan Duryea, Rex Ingram (it was Rex Ingram Day on TCM) et. al. The film nicely uses the old plot-by-attrition: you have to keep watching to see who makes it and who doesn't.

Tomorrow on Turner it's Mitchum Day!



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« #15235 : August 12, 2015, 08:01:38 AM »

Yeah, I saw a few minutes of THE SUNDOWNERS before work this morning. Saw the full movie once, it was decent, I think I gave it like a 7 or 7.5/10


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« #15236 : August 12, 2015, 08:57:41 AM »

Blood On The Moon is coming up!



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« #15237 : August 12, 2015, 06:20:16 PM »

Ninja over great wall 3/6 , usually the China vs Japan/Fist of Fury films are entertaining but this is tedious , choreograpy seems un-inspired......I know Le is not of the real Lee's calibre but he could've tried at least  ::)

Warriors Two 4/6 , I expected more from this.....imo "36th chamber" is more fun


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« #15238 : August 13, 2015, 06:40:38 PM »

Walking outta Union Square Regal theater now. Saw THE GIFT. i did not like it. 5.5/10
Another wanna-be Hitch movie.


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« #15239 : August 13, 2015, 10:26:59 PM »

Walking outta Union Square Regal theater now. Saw THE GIFT. i did not like it. 5.5/10
Another wanna-be Hitch movie.
Just read the plot summary at Wikipedia. Sounds like 5.5 is much too high a rating.



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